Mickey Mouse in the observation car

[werner001]

I posted this question in another forum, but as it is about sound this seems to be the right place.

I changed the WAV of the ESE observation car to "The City of New Orleans" and it works except for the fact that the speed is way too fast so it sounds like Mickey Mouse is the singer instead of Arlo Guthrie.
The WAV is 11.025 Hz, but MONO instead of STEREO, could this be the reason?
When i play it directly, i.e. outside MSTS it is ok.
Anybody has an idea?

Thanks,
Werner

[troub]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-17-02 AT 01:57PM (EST)[p]The mono/stereo thing shouldn't have anything to do with the pitch. The first thing I would look at is the length of the files. If your CON .wav is a lot longer than theirs (a 10 or 15 second loop of part of "Take the 'A' Train, I think?), the game might be speeding yours up to fit in the same loop as theirs, which might be determined in the .sms file. . .

troub
[link:pages.sbcglobal.net/msts-ic|MSTS: Illinois Central]

[chattanooga_choo_choo]

right click on the wav file and click on properties to see if you have these right.
audio format: PCM
average data: 44.100 kb/sec
sample rate: 11.25 khz
audio sample 16 bit
channels: 2 (stereo)
This is what my wav file is set at and Arlo is singing his heart out in the club car on the ESE. I renamed my wav file to the same thing that was in the ESE\Sound\ folder and it works great. My wav file is nearly 12 megs.
Hope this helps.

[stationmaster]

Length shouldn't matter. The ESE-2 update has a 5-minute loop.

[cakewalker]

It seems that interior sounds should be STEREO, exterior sounds MONO. I have made a Mickey Mouse diesel using mono samples for cab sounds ;-) MSTS seems to playback mono samples at double speed, which is understandable...

[werner001]

I fond out in the meantime that it is an issue of mono/stereo.
I changed the .sms from Stereo() to Mono() and now Arlo is singing instead of Mickey.
The disadvantage is that the other sounds don't sound too good anymore.
Would you be willing to share your stereo wav with me?

[Dokkensound]

Yes, Mono versus Stereo is a big issue and you are correct. All inside files are stereo and all outside should be mono. Think about it , it makes sense. In the cab the sounds should surround you and should have been mixed so that they are panned correctly,ie.. if the brake valve is to your right then the air release sounds should be slightly right side heavy. When I record the sounds for MSTS I hang an XY stereo pair right over the engineers head, this captures the sounds as the should be panned, sometimes a bit of touchup will help when processing the files. Now all the outside sounds are panned according to source location versus viewer location so a mono file is more appropriate, yes a stereo file could have been used and both left and right tracks panned with a slight bit of imaging but this would be very inefficiant and would use 2 channels of sound where one would do. We are up against the wall of multiple audio channels as it is.
R. Easterday (DokkenSound)
"But these go to "11""
Spinal Tap

[McCloud_River_John]

I have a question.... I followed the advice here, found a song with the same playing length, coverted to a wav, and it jumped to 53mb! I am going to assume I need to keep it to the same file size?

[Dokkensound]

No, File size is only an issue with your RAM. As long as you have enough your fine. Do be sure that the music is at 11.25k sample rate and 16bit stereo.
R. Easterday (DokkenSound)
"But these go to "11""
Spinal Tap

[DKlemm]

Is it a problem to put the file up in the file library? Shouldn't be a copyright issue unless one of us wants to use it to make money. My email can't take a 11meg file and I'm not sure I have the tools to do this myself.

I really want this though in my observation car!

David Klemm
Illinois Central Route
Illinois and St Louis Divisions
Ver 0.6 uploaded
Working on Decatur IL

[stationmaster]

I'm sorry to say that if the song is not in the public domain, it is still a violation of copyright law to share it with others, even for free. We'll just have to make our own recordings )c:

Ron

[Dokkensound]

Yeah, there's a little wiggle room in the law in some cases. I'm not up on the latest stuff regarding digital but like with cassette tapes, it is completely legal to make a tape and GIVE it to a friend. Each tape you buy has a few cents added which are then divided up and distributed to all recording artists. Most of the guys I've worked with get that big 5cent check from ASCAP or BMI once a year. I have no idea how it's now being handled in digital media or files. As slow as the law is at times it still may not have been addressed. I just took the gamble with the ESE to show it could be done so others could add stuff to future cars and because I figured as it was for charity that the odds of a lawsuit were slim. TA didn't make a dime but raised a nice bit of change for the charity. In the future I may try and get unsigned acts that want the exposure just to be on the safe side. Putting the music in is really easy and the stuff to do it can be found for free pretty easy. All you need is a simple program that can convert the sample rate and capture audio. You only need better to create loop markers and do more serious processing.
R. Easterday (DokkenSound)
"But these go to "11""
Spinal Tap

[McCloud_River_John]

Thanks a bunch! I finally got back to this little project with GoldWave, and now have "last train home" playing in the obs. I'm going to see if I can add the music lines to the .wag file for the dome. (I don't see why it wouldn't work)

I'm a happy camper!

[McCloud_River_John]

I have added music to the VIA Dome Obs and a few cabooses now. (why wouldn't a brakeman bring a boom box?) My question now is to play mutiple tunes do I have to create a wav file with the songs built into the wav, or is possible via the SMS file to have it loop through 2-3 songs or so?

PS. it makes riding in the caboose a little more enjoyable.

[cakewalker]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-01-02 AT 04:25AM (EST)[p]I have added some music to VIA Dome Obs too (my own music created with a help of the Band-in-a-Box and Cakewalk software to avoid possible copyright violation). It's a single file with several songs looping forever. Using "random selection" to select single file randomly needs "play one shot" playback and this "play one shot" event should be triggered by something. One big never ending loop can be easily implemented...

[scefhwil]

You have many options:-

1. A single .wav looping continuously
2. A single .wav looping once linked to a trigger
3. Multiple .wav's playing in their listed sequence continuously
4. Multiple .wav's playing in a random sequence continously
5. Multiple .wav's playing one at a time, random or continuous sequence, link to a trigger

There is an example of nearly all of these in the fscoteng.sms, or if you choose one of the above I could post the required lines for you.

Stuart

[ace6879]

Howdy,

I would LOVE to know how to do all of this, and I can get big e-mails if someone were to share their work!! I would like to make a track with Pink Floyd and such.....any suggestions?? I ahve MANY MP3's to work with.

Kelley
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[McCloud_River_John]

Stuart,

I would be interested in Option 4 & 5. No. 3 if you have time.


John

[Gandalf]

I have tried this by saving a song in Wave format as it is played off a CD in Realplayer. Makes a Huge file. It also crashes the sim every time. Is this an issue with Realplayer's recording or something else like sample rate or mono/stereo. Also, how do you find out the settings for the .wav file? Right clicking doesn't do it for me...

Thanks

[scefhwil]

From looking at the soundcfg.dat in the global directory you can see that different memory allocations are made for the different sound quality levels. ie 30Mb at SL5. You can tell from this file which figure to change if you want to try to up the allocation so your file can load. But it may be that there is a max single file size, but I don't think anyone knows the answer to that.

[McCloud_River_John]

I am using Goldwave, and in a few keystrokes, I'm able to convert from 44khz to 11025 and from an mp3 to a wav. I just haven't figured out how to set up the sms file to play mutiple tunes.

[scefhwil]

The following assumes you know alittle about .sms file editing, including to use a unicode editor! Paste the following additional stream into your sms file under the correct ScalibilityGroup, increasing the number after the text Streams under that Group by one. Change "yourfile1.wav", etc, to what you have called yours. If you have other than four files change the number after the StartLoop text appropriately.

For Option 3.

Stream (
Priority ( 6 )
Triggers ( 1 Initial_Trigger ( StartLoop ( 4
File ( "yourfile1.wav" -1 )
File ( "yourfile2.wav" -1 )
File ( "yourfile3.wav" -1 )
File ( "yourfile4.wav" -1 )
SelectionMethod ( RandomSelection )
)
)
)
)

For Option 4 use the above text but change RandomSelection to SequentialSelection.

For Option 5, well it will depend on which trigger you want, but if this is a Passenger View (key 5) then no triggers are available anyway.

To get the files playing completely at random (ie with gaps) use

Stream (
Priority ( 6 )
Triggers ( 1 Random_Trigger ( Delay_Min_Max ( 30 120 ) Volume_Min_Max ( 0.1 0.25 )
PlayOneShot ( 4
File ( "yourfile1.wav" -1 )
File ( "yourfile2.wav" -1 )
File ( "yourfile3.wav" -1 )
File ( "yourfile4.wav" -1 )
SelectionMethod ( RandomSelection )
)
)
)
)

The Delay_Min_Max values are in seconds, being the gap between the played files. Valid Volume_Min_Max values are 0 to 1.0

Hope this sorts you,

Stuart

[McCloud_River_John]

Great, I believe your email is the first to cover this. I'll let you know how it turns out.

I did notice a drop in sound quality when I resampled the mp3 files down to 11025. Guess this gives me a reason to learn how to edit music better.

John

[Gandalf]

Thanks for the post, Stuart. That was just what I needed! Got Goldwave this morning and already have Benny Goodman, Peggy Lee, and The Manhattan Transfer playing along with THe Duke in the Obs car. I think I got a short blast out of the K5 horn, too...still testing that.

[McCloud_River_John]

Stuart,

Guess I'm missing something. I've tried using option 3&4 with no luck, the first .wav song plays only and never goes to 2,3 or 4.

I must advise you that I'm used the ESE_OBS_PASS.SMS as a starting basis, if that matters.

Below is my sms file:

Tr_SMS (

Skip ( ********************************************* )
Skip ( *** Via Dome Observation Car *** )
Skip ( ********************************************* )

ScalabiltyGroup( 5
Activation ( PassengerCam() )
Deactivation ( ExternalCam() CabCam() )
Stereo()
Streams ( 3
Stream (
Priority ( 3 )
Triggers ( 1
Initial_Trigger (
StartLoop ( 2 File ( "ESE_pamb_lite1.wav" -1 )
File ( "ESE_pamb_full1.wav" -1 )
SelectionMethod ( RandomSelection ) )
)
)
)
Stream (
Priority ( 6 )
Triggers ( 1
Initial_Trigger (
StartLoop ( 4
File ( "gas.wav" -1 )
File ( "Frank_Rain.wav" -1 )
File ( "Softly.wav" -1 )
File ( "Moonlight.wav" -1 )
SelectionMethod ( RandomSelection )
)
)
)
)
)
)

Skip ( ** As above but no Music ** )
ScalabiltyGroup( 3
Activation ( PassengerCam() Distance (55))
Deactivation ( ExternalCam() CabCam() Distance(50) )
Stereo()
Streams ( 1
Stream (
Priority ( 3 )
Triggers ( 1
Initial_Trigger (
StartLoop ( 2
File ( "ESE_pamb_lite1.wav" -1 )
File ( "ESE_pamb_full1.wav" -1 )
SelectionMethod ( SequentialSelection ) )
)
)
)
)
)
)

[scefhwil]

John,

Can't see an obvious error, although under ScalibilityGroup (5) you declare 3 streams but only have 2.

Can you try altering the order of the four files to check that each will play as the first one, just to check file format compatibility.

If still no joy e-mail me the .sms at scefhwil@barrysworld.co.uk

Stuart

[scefhwil]

Well, it turns out there was no problem with the .sms file. It's a case of the Initial_Trigger not actually working as I thought. Basically it seems that it only selects and plays one file because it is only activated once. Effectively, Sequential selection just ensures the first file in the list is played.

To get a working solution I have had to invent a new sequence of trigger events. I'll place the .sms text in a following post.

I have not had time (working front coupler is a distraction!) to fully test this out. But I can think of some possible issues.

Firstly when I converted a 3 1/2 min .mp3 into a msts compatible .wav the file was 10Mb! I therefore increased my SL5 memory allocation from 30Mb to 60Mb in the soundcfg.dat file (in the global folder) ie doubled the 31457280 figure to 62914560. This did not upset the sim and on my 196Mb RAM system gave no noticable performance impact. May not be the case on other systems.

The files will need to be of about equal length. Why? Because the random trigger needs a time setting. If it's too long then gaps between songs will occur, if it's too short then tracks will start to 'back-up' in the sms system memory. This could lead to sim lockups. Lockups did occur twice to me whilst I was experimenting, requireing a 'big button' press. But using the final config I have had no problems so far.

If anyone wants a copy of the .sms I have done for John then post your address and I will e-mail you.

Stuart

[scefhwil]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-05-02 AT 07:26PM (EST)[p]SIMISA@@@@@@@@@@JINX0x1t______


Tr_SMS (

Skip ( ********************************************* )
Skip ( *** VIA Park Series Dome Observation *** )
Skip ( *** Modified by Stuart Williamson Feb 2002*** )
Skip ( *** to included continuous playing songs *** )
Skip ( ********************************************* )

Skip ( Instruction on use:-

1. It is recommended that the song .wav's are of nearly equal length.
2. List the file names in the two sections as done below.
3. Ensure the figures after the PlayOneShot statements are the number of song files listed.
4. The Random_Trigger values need to be set correctly to suit the shortest of the nearly equal lengths of the songs
ie if this length is 3mins 20sec = 200sec you should have
Random_Trigger ( Delay_Min_Max ( 196 197 ) Volume_Min_Max ( 1 1 ) ReleaseLoopRelease () )
Random_Trigger ( Delay_Min_Max ( 198 199 ) Volume_Min_Max ( 1 1 ) DisableTrigger( 1 ) )
Random_Trigger ( Delay_Min_Max ( 200 201 ) Volume_Min_Max ( 1 1 ) )
5. To get sequential play instead of random order change the RandomSelection after the third Random_Trigger statement
to SequentialSelection.
)

ScalabiltyGroup( 5
Activation ( PassengerCam() )
Deactivation ( ExternalCam() CabCam() )
Stereo()
Streams ( 2
Stream (
Priority ( 3 )
Triggers ( 1
Initial_Trigger (
StartLoop ( 2
File ( "ESE_pamb_lite1.wav" -1 )
File ( "ESE_pamb_full1.wav" -1 )
SelectionMethod ( SequentialSelection )
)
)
)
)
Stream (
Priority ( 7 )
Triggers ( 4
Initial_Trigger (
PlayOneShot ( 4
File ( "song1.wav" -1 )
File ( "song2.wav" -1 )
File ( "song3.wav" -1 )
File ( "song4.wav" -1 )
SelectionMethod ( RandomSelection )
)
)
Random_Trigger ( Delay_Min_Max ( 60 61 ) Volume_Min_Max ( 1 1 ) ReleaseLoopRelease () )
Random_Trigger ( Delay_Min_Max ( 61 62 ) Volume_Min_Max ( 1 1 ) DisableTrigger( 1 ) )
Random_Trigger ( Delay_Min_Max ( 65 66 ) Volume_Min_Max ( 1 1 )
PlayOneShot ( 4
File ( "song1.wav" -1 )
File ( "song2.wav" -1 )
File ( "song3.wav" -1 )
File ( "song4.wav" -1 )
SelectionMethod ( RandomSelection )
)
)
)
)
)
)

Skip ( ** As above but no Music ** )
ScalabiltyGroup( 3
Activation ( PassengerCam() Distance (55))
Deactivation ( ExternalCam() CabCam() Distance(50) )
Stereo()
Streams ( 1
Stream (
Priority ( 3 )
Triggers ( 1
Initial_Trigger ( StartLoop ( 2
File ( "ESE_pamb_lite1.wav" -1 )
File ( "ESE_pamb_full1.wav" -1 )
SelectionMethod ( SequentialSelection ) )
)
)
)
)
)
)

[scefhwil]

Gandalf,

Have you not had the same problem as JD?

[Gandalf]

Yes and no. I had this problem with the random play in option 3 in your original post. I re-edited to option 5, and no problems. I am using 4 .wavs, are about 6MB and the A-train from ESE. The only thing that doesn't eork is the gap between songs. Also, the randomization is not great, but I figured that was because there were only 4 files. It IS playing randomly though. Even occasionally repeats the same file. Thanks again for the tips.