Awwwww shet.

[JudgeKiller]

I got my copy of Trainz yesterday, installed it, ran it, crashed it...
Okay so i didnt read the spec's... now i have to get a new video card... my old one is a Voodoo 3 2000 8mb, the minimum is 16mb, so i have to go the full way and get a GeForce2 :7 with 32mb. damn i wanted to play this game, now i have to wait 2 months till i get the money to get the card. :(
any ideas on how to make an 8mb card run at 16mb? like sharing RAM or something?

~\/~/\~\/~/\~
JudgeKiller
~\/~/\~\/~/\~

"The Judge is in the house!"

[JudgeKiller]

hmmmm, just testing my sig... n/m

~\/~/\~\/~/\~
JudgeKiller
~\/~/\~\/~/\~
a.k.a
-++{=Neos_Matrix=}++-

http://secret.lab6.com/uploaded_files/1007759194.jpg

http://secret.lab6.com/uploaded_files/1007759194.jpg

[Baz47]

Yeh, put in a virtual Geoforce 3.

Non of them are real, remember?

Baz

[LawrenceKellie]

Imagine that. I was under the impression from all the hype about Trainz that it would run on anything. After all, it was built to counteract all of the shortcomings of MSTS, isn't that what everyone said? Didn't many complain about having to upgrade their computer, and with Trainz coming this wouldn't happen, because the Trainz people were so much more intelligent than MS/KUJU??????

Hmmm. Interesting.

Lawrence

[dgauci]

Reality bites, and crow doesn't taste very good. There's now going to be a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth.

The graphics look really, really bad. The games very buggy out of the box. It's VERY expensive when you add up all of the additional modules to purchase to make it as complete as MSTS. It has similar hardware requirements to MSTS so low end systems equally won't pass muster. Yeah, reality bites.

[JudgeKiller]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-07-01 AT 09:04PM (EST)[p]I also have MSTS, i can run that with ALL the options on at around 23fps.
I have seen screens of Trainz and they look alot better than MSTS.
BTW, im guessing the virtual GeForce3 is a joke? :7
Im also hoping that Trainz will be more easy to run than MSTS (remember the editors and tools... still cant work then).
I also had high hopes for Trainz running on my system, seems that nearly all games do (exept Colin McRae). Suppose the voodoo was a bit (a bit? jeez more like alot) outdated, and need replacing.

~\/~/\~\/~/\~
JudgeKiller
~\/~/\~\/~/\~
a.k.a
-++{=Neos_Matrix=}++-

http://secret.lab6.com/uploaded_files/1007759194.jpg

[dgauci]

>I have seen screens of Trainz
>and they look alot better
>than MSTS.

You must be joking, the screenshots in Trainz look like toys.

[dgallina]

Oh for god's sake, there's plenty of room for both games. Please go buy a copy and try it and quit bashing Trainz for the hell of it. I own and design for both games and they both have pluses and minuses.

To complain, however, that Trainz is bad because the company that makes it supports it, extends it, and listens to the community is uninformed garbage. If MS had supported MSTS the way Auran has Trainz so far the MSTS community would be thrilled.

[LawrenceKellie]

You know, if there is any bashing around, it sure is the pot calling the kettle black. Before Nels added this forum, all type of *pre*-release garbage was going around--how much better Trainz was going to be, etc.

Now the product is out, and from the reports that are in this forum it doesn't sound like Auran did very much better. Come back and talk about this when Trainz sells over 8 million copies.

Lawrence

[dgauci]

>Oh for god's sake, there's plenty of room for both games.

An argument I have been making to Trainz fans for months, who kept telling us how MSTS was dead and that how much greater Trainz was going to be. Now that the premise has been proven wrong, Trainz fans don't like to be reminded of their overheated hype.

> Please go buy a copy and try it and quit bashing Trainz for the hell of it.

I'm not going to buy a copy, I don't like the way it works or the model railroading premise it is based on. I don't need a simulator to play with toy trains. I still believe there is room for both, if you like Trainz buy it, I just won't be one of them. Trainz fans have bashed MSTS for months, I've just reacted the same way now that the reality of the released program is out. I'm done posting in this forum.

>If MS had supported MSTS the way Auran has Trainz so far the MSTS community would be thrilled.

I'm part of the MSTS community and I'm not unhappy with Microsoft or MSTS. I think they did a wonderful version 1 product and am looking forward to see what is next.

[JudgeKiller]

Im not kidding. The MSTS trains are bland (well not many of the add-on ones are tho)and the detail sucks.
Trainz locos seem to look better than my HO Santa Fe F7 (Its bit of a mess at the moment).

~\/~/\~\/~/\~
JudgeKiller
~\/~/\~\/~/\~
a.k.a
-++{=Neos_Matrix=}++-

http://secret.lab6.com/uploaded_files/1007759194.jpg

[Hack]

>Come back
>and talk about this when
>Trainz sells over 8 million
>copies.

Just so we keep the numbers straight: from what understand MSTS has *barely* crested the 100k mark in retail sales (I'll have to double check if that's US or worldwide). I'm sure the numbers will grow (now that Christmas is coming), but I'll bet it doesn't hit the 1/4-mil mark by next spring.

This isn't an attack on you. I just find it interesting the sales increase (leaps and bounds) with each post from everyone.

Cheers!
Marc - 3DTrains

[Hentis]

>
>> Please go buy a copy and try it and quit bashing Trainz for the hell of it.
>
>I'm not going to buy a
>copy, I don't like the
>way it works or the
>model railroading premise it is
>based on.

Fair enough thats your choice but you are bashing something you dont want to even try (again your choice) after omly you have seen a few screen shots off. Have you only read the negative posts on Trainz as there are an awfull lot of Positive posts.

>I don't need a simulator to play
>with toy trains. I
>still believe there is room
>for both, if you like
>Trainz buy it, I just
>won't be one of them.

Thats agreed there is room for both . Well when I buy a bigger HD there will be :P

> Trainz fans have bashed
>MSTS for months, I've just
>reacted the same way now
>that the reality of the
>released program is out.

Yeah and if the tables were reversed and Trainz was released before MTS we would be having the same conversation now. I read in the "i'll stick with MTS post" one poster stated that each Driverz and Surveyz module will cost $50 each that is untrue.
Also stated that there were "many bugs" in which to be honest I have yet to see someone post a complaint on the Trainz forum with the word "Bug" again this person was severly lacking of knowledge of the product.
Auran have also stated that there is no support for voodoo cards as unfortunately Voodoo ( how good they were and I had 2 or 3 of their cards over time) have been superceeded by the likes of Nvida and ATI (ugh) and Voodoo if I am coorect are no more bit of a shame. There are also planned service packs over the nxt couple of weeks for a number of things.... which leads me to you writing below



>>If MS had supported MSTS the way Auran has Trainz so far the MSTS community would be thrilled.
>
>I'm part of the MSTS community
>and I'm not unhappy with
>Microsoft or MSTS. I
>think they did a wonderful
>version 1 product and am
>looking forward to see what
>is next.

Admittedly a vast amount of people are not unhappy.... but I for one am for my £50 I spent and yes I do like MTS however much I bash it for its inadaquacies ( <---- I do hope that is spelt right) I expect to get updates to the product if there are bugs and yes there are loads of bugs in MTS which wont be available in a update add on or patch......but Version 2. Where is the online help from Microsoft or Kuju.....now where.... with Auran if you have a problem its answered with in a couple of hours by a programmer or some one from the company...... and they are on the other side of the world. Microsoft might do some well thought out sims as ideas but programming them and releasing and there technical support is ##### or non existant.

I am glad you are looking forward to see whats next.... this is the first Microsoft sim I have bought although I have played several versions of Flight sim.... flying a plane is not for me really. Yet do we have to wait at least 5 - 6 years for Microsoft to actually get it right for the train sim community. I will wait and see what the new version of MTS 2 looks like if they do another one. I WONT BE DUPED a second time and buy a beta testers nightmare.

In closing there are going to be similar comparisions and MTS vs Trainz comments but at the end of the day its down to the individual person who buys it installs it and likes or dislikes it....but when they start making up false statements about the opposing product then yes i think its right to jump into defend that product. People may not like what I have written above.... but its true to the best of my knowledge.
iut may seem I hate MTS I dont I like it like I said above even though it crashes and screws up BUT Microsoft is conning all of us. Eventually the brighter ones out there will discover it and see what I mean.

Hentis

"The futures not set..... theres no fate but what we make"

[Nate0125RS]

>Imagine that. I was under
>the impression from all the
>hype about Trainz that it
>would run on anything.
>After all, it was built
>to counteract all of the
>shortcomings of MSTS, isn't that
>what everyone said? Didn't
>many complain about having to
>upgrade their computer, and with
>Trainz coming this wouldn't happen,
>because the Trainz people were
>so much more intelligent than
>MS/KUJU??????
>
>Hmmm. Interesting.
>
>Lawrence

Umm, what would give you that impression? Auran never, ever said Trainz would run on a low end system. In fact, they have said Trainz is a long-term project and will be taking advantage of all system resources available. There was no "hype" that Trainz would be the end-all train sim. Not to mention, Trainz is meant to coexist with MSTS.

[downside]

>>one poster stated that each Driverz and Surveyz module will cost $50 each that is untrue.

I haven’t seen anything from Auran to the contrary.

>>Yet do we have to wait at least 5 - 6 years for Microsoft to actually get it right for the train sim community.

I presume you mean months rather that years

>>There are also planned service packs over the nxt couple of weeks for a number of things.... which leads me to you writing below

So presumably they acknowledge by deed rather than word that the first version is buggy.

Bill

Ps – no it’s not – it’s inadequacies

[dgauci]

> There was no "hype"
>that Trainz would be the
>end-all train sim. Not
>to mention, Trainz is meant
>to coexist with MSTS.

Uh, I admit I don't use Trainz and my information was gathered second-hand. But the above statement is not true either. Do a search in the forums on this board and you will see a steady posting for months from rabid Trainz fans on how Trainz was going to bury MSTS as the end-all train sim and MSTS was refuse. Thats the overhype we got sick of.

[dgauci]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-08-01 AT 11:02AM (EST)[p]
As I've already stated I don't use or plan to buy Trainz, my information is second hand.

But as another Trainz fan has corrected me, the version of Trainz now being released to the train-sim community is essentially a paid beta version. So yes by buying it you are paying $50 to beta test someone elses product before general release. And yes it is normal to submit bug reports and receive interim product updates and fixes during a beta test period. So I'm less impressed with Auran's stellar support in providing quick patches and enhancements which is the normal procedure for all companies during a beta period, including Microsoft. In essence your all just beta testers prior to the product going into general retail release.

[Hentis]

>>>one poster stated that each Driverz and Surveyz module will cost $50 each that is untrue.
>
>I haven’t seen anything from Auran
>to the contrary.

Ok lets spell it out for the people that are slightly confused and dont get it!!!!!!!!
The cost of Trainz which includes :-

Trainz
Code: TRAINZ01
International Price: AUD$ 99.90 (~approx US$ 51.29) + Postage
Australian Price: AUD$ 109.89 (inclusive of GST)* Which is about £39.95 for UK

* We pay the GST for our Australian customers, save AUD$ 9.99 GST.
You pay AUD$ 99.90 + Postage

Trainz is a virtual model railroad. Design and build your very own virtual world and then put on your engineer cap and ride the rails in the most spectacular environments imaginable.

Also it shows a complete list of locos and rolling stock which will be available in the pack go to the link below

http://www.auran.com/trainz/msts/shop.htm

The modules you get are Trainz desktop View your rolling stock. Trainz Surveyor Build your own layouts. Trainz Driverz - allows you to drive your loco and consist over the 3 included routes and any other "layouts" which you make or download.

This poster stated that you would have to pay $50 for trains it self then another $50 for the Surveyor. Like I said thats not the case..... basicly this person is either bullshitting or has been mis-informed.


>>>Yet do we have to wait at least 5 - 6 years for Microsoft to actually get it right for the train sim community.
>
>I presume you mean months rather
>that years


No Its been 9 months all ready I do mean 5-6 years.
How long has it taken them to get Flight sim any where decent

>>>There are also planned service packs over the nxt couple of weeks for a number of things.... which leads me to you writing below
>
>So presumably they acknowledge by deed
rather than word that the first version is buggy.

No not at all. This will enable Direct X support and any other slight problems that has arisen as well as various bits of bonus rolling stock. Like I said b4 I dont know of any post that has been posted about Bugs in Trainz.
Here read this then you might get the full picture.

On Friday the 30th of November Auran began shipping the Community Edition of Trainz to customers all over the world. Today, the 3rd of December it's the locals turn with Trainz being dispatched to our Australian customers. This shipment marks the beginning of a long term commitment by Auran to bring model railroading to your PC and the endless hours of enjoyment that comes with it.

Perhaps even more significant is Auran's commitment over the coming months to continued development and enhancement of Trainz with the release of various 'Collection Packs', new modules and 'Service Packs', all slated for release next year.

First off there will be three new 'Collection Packs' available within weeks of release. These packs add to your Trainz experience by bringing new locos, rolling stock and routes as well as new scenery items from a variety of countries from all over the world.

Next up you will see the release of Yardmaster, a new module that adds detailed visual activities to Trainz. Yardmaster allows you to run your railroad just like the real thing by adding a large number of new features and enhancements to the Trainz environment.

Next, our commitment to continued improvement of the product, will see a Service Pack for Trainz available just two weeks after the Community Edition release. Trainz 'Service Packs' are much more than mere bug fixes or patches. Each release will include additional improvements, assets and features. For example SP1 increases Trainz performance by up to 20%, adds DirectX support, includes a new item of rolling stock and adds a user configurable 'sign' that can be used to name a Station or mark the entrance to a town! Why? Because you asked for it!

Finally our support for the 3rd party development community has meant that a number of companies are now developing add on products for Trainz and over the coming months you will see an ever increasing number of locos, rolling stock and scenery becoming available.

Trainz is first and foremost a model railroad for your PC...and just as with a model railroad, you can collect a wide array of new and exciting additions for your layouts. Just like a model railroad, you can join your layouts with other people's. Eventually...just like a model railroad, you'll be able to take your locos and drive them around one huge layout online with all of your friends. Trainz is a hobby that will grow with the support of Auran and the wider Trainz community. We know that the main reason all of this is possible is the development of a very strong and supportive community. This is precisely why we created the Community Edition of Trainz. It's our way of saying thanks to all of the people who have helped to create this great game and who will assist us to continue to improve and mould it into a truly great hobby game. We look forward to seeing all of the exciting activities and content that emerges from the wider Trainz community over the coming months and years. Auran is dedicated to working with the community to make Trainz the most extensive PC railroad imaginable.


Hentis

"The futures not set..... theres no fate but what we make"

[dgauci]

>Next, our commitment to continued improvement
>of the product, will see
>a Service Pack for Trainz
>available just two weeks after
>the Community Edition release. Trainz
>'Service Packs' are much more
>than mere bug fixes or
>patches. Each release will include
>additional improvements, assets and features.
>For example SP1 increases Trainz
>performance by up to 20%,
>adds DirectX support, includes a
>new item of rolling stock
>and adds a user configurable
>'sign' that can be used
>to name a Station or
>mark the entrance to a
>town! Why? Because you asked
>for it!

You can put any spin on this that you want, one way of viewing it is the product is being released in an unfinished state and over time we will be providing the updates and additions that the initial product should have released with right out of the box, but didn't. A 20% performance increase, (in other words the application in the box is 20% slower in performance than it should have been.) DirectX support and new rolling stock, things that could have been included in the original box but because were rushing it out the door they weren't.

I don't have to be hit with a rock, to know that I don't like being hit by a rock. I'm not buying it, if you are then fine and I'm not interested in trying to change your minds.

I'm posting this not because I'm trying to compare Trainz with any other product, I'm not. What I am saying is to those who think I have criticized Trainz unfairly, I'm only going by what Auran and the Trainz community has said themselves.

[LawrenceKellie]

I have been using the 8 million "copies" sold number for some time, as I heard it from a very reliable source with MS.

Lawrence

[JudgeKiller]

>Please go buy a copy and try it and quit bashing Trainz for the >hell of it.

>In closing there are going to
>be similar comparisions and MTS
>vs Trainz comments but at
>the end of the day
>its down to the individual
>person who buys it installs
>it and likes or dislikes
>it
Hentis.

All i have to say is that i agree fully with this from Hentis. If you like it, you like it but if you hate it, you hate it, its as simple as that. I have both MSTS and Trainz, i think that MSTS is a great idea but i am waiting for them to relese a patch to fix a few of the bugs. Ill stick with both thanks.

~\/~/\~\/~/\~
JudgeKiller
~\/~/\~\/~/\~
a.k.a
-++{=Neos_Matrix=}++-

http://secret.lab6.com/uploaded_files/1007759194.jpg

System:
Pentium 3 700mhz
128 RAM
Voodoo 3 2000 8mb
Windows 98 SE
19" Monitor
8x DVD 40x CD
scabby 56k modem

[Hentis]

>I have been using the 8
>million "copies" sold number for
>some time, as I heard
>it from a very reliable
>source with MS.
>
>Lawrence

Well of course they would tell you that its a MICROSOFT product they are not going to tell you a lowly member of what is deemed these days to be known as the PUBLIC confidential stuff. Come on I dont think it has sold that much world wide or was that just in the states?

Hentis

"The futures not set..... theres no fate but what we make"

[Hentis]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-01 AT 05:27AM (EST)[p]>
>Uh, I admit I don't use
>Trainz and my information was
>gathered second-hand. But the
>above statement is not true
>either. Do a search
>in the forums on this
>board and you will see
>a steady posting for months
>from rabid Trainz fans on
>how Trainz was going to
>bury MSTS as the end-all
>train sim and MSTS was
>refuse. Thats the overhype
>we got sick of.

At the end of the day yes there were some people that posted about Trainz being better than MTS, I was one that posted something about Trainz being quoted by a magazine as being better than MTS in the wrong forum in which I publicly apologised for but I havent seen that many posts about Trainz being better than MTS.

What I would like you to do though is to tell me if you have had any feedback from Microsoft or Kuju about bugs in the game..... I have emailed them loads of times both of them and get nothing....zip , zero and zilch yet Microsoft expect want you to buy their product...... to be honest I am not against MTS it's Microsuck and the LACK of support that they have given you, me and the rest of the train simmers who got duped into buying MTS... I like MTS, apart from Red Alert II Yuris revenge and Star Trek Voyager Elite Force its the only sim that I have been playing. The thing that is pi$$ing me off and gets my goat ( bleat bleat) is that MS are not going to produce a patch why because they in theory, if you follow Flight Sim , they will bring another version out costing a little more and Microsoft are expecting us to pay more for it.

MTS and Trainz will sit side by side on my PC. Both sims have ups and down sides to each other.
Besides Auran are still developing locos for MTS hmmm I wonder if we can have the Brew crew stock for MTS?

Oh and to the people saying there is no Steam in Trainz. Train artisan are producing a Steam locomotive (ESE) for Trainz. And Steam Trainz will become available later on down the line - pardon the pun.

Also to the eejits saying Trainz looks to much like Toys why wouldnt it it is a MODEL RAILROAD sim after all.

Hentis

"The futures not set..... theres no fate but what we make"

[rabid]

I don't understand why someone who has bought a computer game and installed it on his PC is a 'fan'... I mean it's not exactly football is it? My point is that most people will buy both products and get enjoyment from them; there is no need to form camps. What matters is that we now have more choice and the benefit of a little competition in the Rail Sim arena. As well as the big two, I also use BVE (Boso View Express), a Japanese freeware driving simulator (mostly unheard of in the States) that to me gives an unparalleled driving experience. There's so much good stuff out there, why bicker about it?

[VRfan]

>
>Also to the eejits saying Trainz
>looks to much like Toys
> why wouldnt it it
>is a MODEL RAILROAD sim
>after all.
>

I've seen some model railways that look extremely realistic. Why should Auran emulate the cheap toy end of the market?

--

http://members.optushome.com.au/jrbrook/pics/icon.jpg

Victorian Railfan Web Site:
http://www.railpage.org.au/vr/

[Boweavel]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-01 AT 09:03AM (EST)[p]They made them model like Just to piss people like yourself off.. Thats the only reason...

Dgauci.. If i buy a gun and have it posted to you..Do you think you could shoot yoyrself? Or would i have to hire someone ?

Lets us know so i can work something out

Catchya's

[VRfan]

>
>They made them model like Just
>to piss people like yourself
>off.. Thats the only reason...
>

Why should the models be any less accurate just because it is being marketed as a "virtual model railroad"? I think reasonably accurate models are a fair expectation, especially when the game is significantly more expensive than MSTS. The errors I noticed in their S are extremely simple and wouldn't be there if they looked at photos properly.

--

http://members.optushome.com.au/jrbrook/pics/icon.jpg

Victorian Railfan Web Site:
http://www.railpage.org.au/vr/

[Boweavel]

My appoligies to you VRfan... Just woke up..cranky and all that.. I retract my shot at you..

Catchya's

[Hentis]

>especially when the
>game is significantly more expensive
>than MSTS. The errors I
>noticed in their S are
>extremely simple and wouldn't be
>there if they looked at
>photos properly.
>


Well I for one bought MTS for £50.00
Trainz has cost me about £39.95 so where does that say that Trainz is more expensive than MTS....

So far on MTS I have forked out for The Game £50, The Tehachapi Pass route £18, The LTV mining trainset and Route £29.00 and AUrans MTS add-on pack of £20.00 so I dont think I have managed to spend £117 on Trainz yet...... (that doesent include the £30 pound money transfer fee I was billed either :p

Bear in mind that although MTS gloably was selling at about $50 or £50 was not sure how much it was in Ausralia perhaps you could enlighten me? But Trainz is $109 AuSD dollars $51.26 USD and about £39.99 GBP so I dont see where the more expensive term comes into it.

Hentis
"The futures not set..... theres no fate but what we make"

[dgauci]

>Dgauci.. If i buy a gun
>and have it posted to
>you..Do you think you could
>shoot yoyrself? Or would i
>have to hire someone ?
>

Boy we are cranky today aren't we, because I have a differnt opinion then yours, you now jest about physical violence against me. Either your a teenager with no common sense, or a senile old fool who's never had any.

[Boweavel]

Neither .. Just pissed of with some folks pushing a point that doesnt even exsist ..

Catchya

[VRfan]

No problem :-)

--

http://members.optushome.com.au/jrbrook/pics/icon.jpg

Victorian Railfan Web Site:
http://www.railpage.org.au/vr/

[slen]

>not
>sure how much it was
>in Ausralia perhaps you could
>enlighten me?

The RRP of Trainz is A$109.89 but Auran are paying the GST for Australian customers, so effectively it's $99.90.

The RRP of MSTS is A$99.95. It currently sells for $83.10 at the online store I bought it from (was around $79 at the time I bought it, if I remember correctly).

[VRfan]

I got MSTS for A$79.95 from a shop in Melbourne, but most shops were selling it for A$89.95 (both including GST). The minimum price for Trainz at the moment is A$99.95, but Auran pays the GST for you. I'm assuming they can't do this when it goes out to shops, so it will be the full price of A$109.95. If you do buy it from Auran online, you have to pay A$103.90 once you add the postage charges.

According to everything I've read over at Auran, you will have to buy future modules. Unless the Yardmaster module is given away free, I can see Trainz possibly reaching over A$120 before it gets to the level of functionality that MSTS offers straight out of the box.

Overall, Trainz is between A$10 - A$20 more expensive than MSTS, and this is without the Yardmaster module.

Just as a comparison to other games sold in Australia, "Return To Castle Wolfenstein" is A$89.95 and "Red Faction" is A$79.95. This is the usual price of new release games in Australia. I really think Auran have priced Trainz too high if they want to get average gamers interested in it.

--

http://members.optushome.com.au/jrbrook/pics/icon.jpg

Victorian Railfan Web Site:
http://www.railpage.org.au/vr/

[Boweavel]

Dgauci... I Didnt have time today to get on early to add that i too apoligise to you for my ridiculess threat.. I really dont know what i was thinking and why the heck i would stoop so low to say something like that, or even to get involved in this petty thread..

Once again..My apoligies to you And anyone else offend By my stupid comment..

Take care, HAve Fun and rememeber there all meant to be Games; 1. An amusement or past time; diversion .

Catchya's

[GandyDancer]

I recieved Trainz on Saturday Dec 8th, and have noticed the following differences between it and MSTS:

1) The editor (Surveyor) is easier to use then MSTS
2) The MSTS editor is easier to import DEM Data then Surveyor. I suspect this may change in the future with 3rd party programs.
3) MSTS has a better reference system for locating places Lat/Long where Surveyor provides an ruler base mesurment system, Inches,meters.
4) The Engines in Trainz are not as good as the Engines in MSTS. Remember when MSTS came out the Engines were not as good as the user provided ones.

5)The Scenery objects in Trainz are better then MSTS.

6) Trainz lets you switch to other consts while in an activity. I can put together a consts with one engine, and chose another engine to run the consts.

7) MSTS executes a litle more realisticly then Trainz.
8) Trainz has a better visual feel while execiting.

Sam "I Like both sims" Schulenburg

[Hentis]

>I recieved Trainz on Saturday Dec
>8th, and have noticed the
>following differences between it and
>MSTS:
>
>1) The editor (Surveyor) is easier
>to use then MSTS
>2) The MSTS editor is easier
>to import DEM Data then
>Surveyor. I suspect this may
>change in the future with
>3rd party programs.
>3) MSTS has a better reference
>system for locating places Lat/Long
>where Surveyor provides an ruler
>base mesurment system, Inches,meters.
>4) The Engines in Trainz are
>not as good as the
>Engines in MSTS. Remember when
>MSTS came out the Engines
>were not as good as
>the user provided ones.
>
>5)The Scenery objects in Trainz are
>better then MSTS.
>
>6) Trainz lets you switch to
>other consts while in an
>activity. I can put together
>a consts with one engine,
>and chose another engine to
>run the consts.
>
>7) MSTS executes a litle more
>realisticly then Trainz.
>8) Trainz has a better visual
>feel while execiting.
>
>Sam "I Like both sims" Schulenburg
>

"And Thats all there is to it" :D

Hentis
"The futures not set..... theres no fate but what we make"

[Southpaw_Samurai]

>I can see
>Trainz possibly reaching over A$120
>before it gets to the
>level of functionality that MSTS
>offers straight out of the
>box.

My copy of Trainz hasn't arrived yet, so my statements are based on other people's experiences so far.

If we start talking 'functionality', Trainz has one aspect of functionality over MSTS straight out of the box with absolutely no other needed add-on: the ability to create your own routes quickly and efficiently without a few weeks of practice and trial and error. That's what sold me on Trainz more than anything else. I still like MSTS for what it does right, but MSTS1 fails at the creation process and the only efforts to improve such have come from the community.

Auran has been quite active in the community, something neither Kuju nor Microsoft have been. That's a very positive sign. They've been making modifications based on user input and have taken to heart people's desires.

The only lacking in functionality I see in the original Trainz release compared to the MSTS release is the lack of 'activities' and well-controlled switching and AI trains. It's a shame about the latter, but you can still have other trains running...and if you're careful with the limited signals, you can even have them operating on the same routes as you.

As for the activities...I prefer the nearly limitless scope of the imagination over strict, coded activies anyway. While I thoroughly enjoy racing from Tokyo to Hakone, trying to meet my time table, I can still do that with a hand-written time table. I personally think its more fun to just make up little activities in your head then be told 'move 12 mixed freight from A to B in XX:XX time'. In the end, there's little difference if you follow your own made-up rules...except that you can acccidentally cross a red light and not be thown back out to the menu.

It's strange...I gave into the MSTS hype and was burned. Trainz has given many hope for being able to design and run layouts, so I've been actively supportive of it. My involvement in that community has partially been defending the good points of MSTS (oh, if it was supported!) and now I'm also finding myself defending Trainz.

Train fans have been a neglected community in the world of PC games. Now thay we've seen not one, but two good attempts to appease us within a year, should we really divide ourselves up? Each of the two sims may not appeal to the whole community, but we should show some kind of united front to prove to Auran that they chose a right genre to play with and maybe even show Microsoft that they should be supporting us.

[VRfan]

>MSTS1 fails
>at the creation process and
>the only efforts to improve
>such have come from the
>community.
>

At the moment both games fail in the creation process when it comes to 3D models. However, MSTS is currently the only one with a reasonably priced and relatively easy to use 3D editor specially made for the game (thanks to Abacus, not Micro$oft.) Currently, the only 3D editor that works with Trainz is 3D Studio Max.

> The only lacking in functionality I see in the original Trainz
> release compared to the MSTS release is the lack
> of 'activities' and well-controlled switching and AI trains.
> It's a shame about the latter, but you can still have other
> trains running...and if you're careful with the limited
> signals, you can even have them operating on the same routes
> as you.

Does Trainz have a cab editor like MSTS? I haven't seen anything about one on the Auran site. Also, MSTS has activities so it has an editor which allows you to create your own. Unless I'm mistaken, all you can currently do with Trainz is build a route and run one or more trains on it in a type of explore mode. While Trainz may be easier to use, the only thing you can't do in MSTS is move from one loco to another.

>Auran has been quite active in
>the community, something neither Kuju
>nor Microsoft have been.
>

I'm in full agreement with you here. I think Microsoft & Kuju's lack of support for the game is really quite pathetic. Auran should be fully congratulated for their efforts with the Trainz community.

--

http://members.optushome.com.au/jrbrook/pics/icon.jpg

Victorian Railfan Web Site:
http://www.railpage.org.au/vr/

[decry]

and how about that local sports team?!

[akochan]

>I got my copy of Trainz
>yesterday, installed it, ran it,
>crashed it...
>Okay so i didnt read the
>spec's... now i have to
>get a new video card...
>my old one is a
>Voodoo 3 2000 8mb, the
>minimum is 16mb, so i
>have to go the full
>way and get a GeForce2
>:7 with 32mb. damn i
>wanted to play this game,
>now i have to wait
>2 months till i get
>the money to get the
>card. :(
>any ideas on how to make
>an 8mb card run at
>16mb? like sharing RAM or
>something?
>
>~\/~/\~\/~/\~
> JudgeKiller
>~\/~/\~\/~/\~
>
>"The Judge is in the house!"
>

Since this thread has gotten way off target, I'll try to bring it back. I'll just make these two points:

Even if you could turn your Voodoo into a 16MB card trainz would look like doodie and when directx support patch it released it would look even worse next to everyone elses since Voodoo drivers only go to DX7.0. You also can't "fool" your computer into thinking it's video card is a different card. Your computer is smarter than you :P

A GeForce 2 MX200 32MB PCI card costs less than Trainz. It also costs less than groceries or cigarettes for a week. It also costs less than one or two nights out at the pub.(unless you drink Budweiser/Coors/etc. and then you should be shot as a beer infidel for having poor taste) So just skip a few of those luxuries like food and get a new card. Hell I've seen some of those Lord of the Rings collections out at the bookstore that cost more than a GeForce2.

-Andy
akochan@crosswinds.net

[Hentis]

>>I got my copy of Trainz
>>yesterday, installed it, ran it,
>>crashed it...
>>Okay so i didnt read the
>>spec's... now i have to
>>get a new video card...
>>my old one is a
>>Voodoo 3 2000 8mb, the
>>minimum is 16mb, so i
>>have to go the full
>>way and get a GeForce2
>>:7 with 32mb. damn i
>>wanted to play this game,
>>now i have to wait
>>2 months till i get
>>the money to get the
>>card. :(
>>any ideas on how to make
>>an 8mb card run at
>>16mb? like sharing RAM or
>>something?
>>
>>~\/~/\~\/~/\~
>> JudgeKiller
>>~\/~/\~\/~/\~
>>
>>"The Judge is in the house!"
>>
>
>Since this thread has gotten way
>off target, I'll try to
>bring it back. I'll
>just make these two points:
>
>
>Even if you could turn your
>Voodoo into a 16MB card
>trainz would look like doodie
>and when directx support patch
>it released it would look
>even worse next to everyone
>elses since Voodoo drivers only
>go to DX7.0. You
>also can't "fool" your computer
>into thinking it's video card
>is a different card.
>Your computer is smarter than
>you :P
>
>A GeForce 2 MX200 32MB PCI
>card costs less than Trainz.
> It also costs less
>than groceries or cigarettes for
>a week. It also
>costs less than one or
>two nights out at the
>pub.(unless you drink Budweiser/Coors/etc. and
>then you should be shot
>as a beer infidel for
>having poor taste) So
>just skip a few of
>those luxuries like food and
>get a new card.
>Hell I've seen some of
>those Lord of the Rings
>collections out at the bookstore
>that cost more than a
>GeForce2.
>
>-Andy
>akochan@crosswinds.net

Nah you dont want a geforce2 you want a geforce 3..... I got one and havent looked back since....MTS looks damn fine....still crashes horrbly though and thats on 800 x 600 grrrrr but the card is damn fine.

Hentis



"The futures not set..... theres no fate but what we make"

[JudgeKiller]

You cant get GF3 cards here yet.
latest news... had to reformatt... mums killing me (not letting me download or install ANYTHING on this comp coz its her's :-<) so now i am going back to my first plans, building a computer. :7

~\/~/\~\/~/\~
JudgeKiller
~\/~/\~\/~/\~
a.k.a
-++{=Neos_Matrix=}++-

http://secret.lab6.com/uploaded_files/1007759194.jpg

System:
Pentium 3 700mhz
128 RAM
Voodoo 3 2000 8mb
Windows 98 SE
19" Monitor
8x DVD 40x CD
scabby 56k modem

[JudgeKiller]

I cant get a PCI vid card. I need them for my modem USB card etc...
Im getting a GF2 AGP card.

~\/~/\~\/~/\~
JudgeKiller
~\/~/\~\/~/\~
a.k.a
-++{=Neos_Matrix=}++-

http://secret.lab6.com/uploaded_files/1007759194.jpg

System:
Pentium 3 700mhz
128 RAM
Voodoo 3 2000 8mb
Windows 98 SE
19" Monitor
8x DVD 40x CD
scabby 56k modem