Australia to buy used M1A1 MBTs

[JonN]

[link:www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi-bin/client/modele.pl?prod=42045&session=dae.4340569.1090221074.QPt0EsOa9dUAAFIRPrg&modele=jdc_1|Linky]

Although it had been known for weeks that Australia would buy some used M1A1s to replace it's aging, worn-out Leopard AS1s, the deal has finally been signed, and is thus "official". These are the original-model M1A1s (built in the late-'80s), and thus have no DU armor, and therefore only half the frontal protection of the latest M1A1HA+ and M1A2 used by the US Army, but that's still a great leap ahead of the Leopard AS1s currently in service, which can be easily be killed from head-on by any ATGM or infantry-AT weapon produced in the last 30 years

The M1A1s were selected over the more capable Leopard 2A5 and Challenger II, mainly because of cost factors (since these M1A1s are used, their pricetag is much lower) and concerns about interoperability with US forces. This choice is still somewhat surprising to me: Australia usually leans toward Europe when making arms purchases.

[ozinoz]

G'day from down under...

Oz hasnt looked to Europe for pretty much anything for the past 2-3 decades. It is sad to say, but if George Bush stopped walking suddenly, all you would see of our Prime Minister would be the soles of his feet.

We get lumbered with second hand helicopters (the airframes of which were used in Vietnam), second hand fighter aircraft, second hand tankers, second hand ships etc and now seccond hand tanks...

We have already started humming Hail to the Chief for when we get our second hand politicians :|

OZ

[ASR_Q301]

Second hand fighter jets?!?!?!?

Are you sure about this??

Those F/A 18's were purchased new. The F111's were second hand however. The new Hurcs. that are coming are new also. Heard of the "Joint-Strike-Fighter"?!?! Australia is getting about 200 odd jets direct from the USA.

>Mike Forster<
Perth, Western Australia

pacificnational_nr103@hotmail.com
http://forums.flightsim.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=view_attachment&file=404bdd7d51111154.jpg

http://www.trainweb.org/aussiepix

[JonN]

>Oz hasnt looked to Europe for pretty much anything for the
>past 2-3 decades.

I'm not sure about that: The Australian Army uses the Steyr AUG as it's official assault rifle (which was selected over the M16A2), they are planning on acquring the French/German EuroCoptre Tiger gunship helicopter, the Leopard AS1s were built in Germany, they use the Land Rover as their utility vehicle, and the British made Rapier as their area-SAM. Also, the Navy's Collins class subs were built in Sweden, and the ANZAC class frigates are based on the German Meko 200 design. Furthermore, most of these systems were new when they were first acquired.

[dpabrams]

While our President is rumored down under to have an Australian PM in his ass, it is a widely known fact that a certain Iraqi mass murderer was found with several French, Russian and German politicians in his ass. A few good US soldiers kindly removed them from the abyss when the murderer was plucked from a hole a few months back.

Pete

[adamb]

>We get lumbered with second hand helicopters (the airframes
>of which were used in Vietnam), second hand fighter
>aircraft, second hand tankers, second hand ships etc and now
>seccond hand tanks...

Betcha if our loading gauge was bigger we would be running second hand US locomotives too x(

Adam

[Gixxer86g]

The Leopards would have been a much more logical choice.Awesome capability;just like it's competitors.But cheaper to operate.They would be nicely equipped regardless of choice,but politics were the key deciding factor here.But that's the way it is all over the world.

[NW_611]

There are always political considerations, but there are also operational considerations. I might be able to sum this up in railroad terminology:

Suppose you're a short line. You're going to be buying motive power soon, and you want to know what to get. Your Class I interchange partner uses EMD exclusively and you lease their units when there's a power shortage. For whatever reason, EMD's units work best as MUs when they're hooked to other EMD units. You also tend to get parts from this Class I to support your maintenance program.

Your choice is between EMD and Baldwin. Which do you pick?

The answer is EMD, whether or not their unit is the "best" locomotive available. You've got to keep your locomotives running, and you've got to be able to work with the Class I's locomotive fleet. There are, of course, larger factors to consider.

Maybe Baldwin's built a better locomotive, and you've got experience with them, but when you need MU operations and your Baldwin RF16 won't hook to an F-unit, then choosing Baldwin would have been a bad idea. In that case, you're waiting for another F7 or whistling up additional RF16s. Either way, that's time and money lost, and a crew sitting still. As for maintenance, remember that Fairbanks-Morse units were hard for other-trained mechanics to work on, and that hurt the unit availability, which hurt sales.

Australia's the short line here. They're more likely to be deployed with us than the Germans, and equipment compatibility is always a consideration. You want to fight alongside people you can talk to, who shoot the same ammunition you do, and who have to fix the same things that you do.

This is apparently a serious near-term issue; Secretary Rumsfeld has indicated previously that European equipment is beginning to lag behind in its ability to operate cooperatively with American forces and their equipment.