Announcement

[Sabrina]

Welcome everyone to the official Kuju Rail Simulator forum for North America!

My name is Sabrina - and I'll be serving as your Kuju moderator - as I also do over at the UK forum. Rail Simulator is a community focused train simulation so we'll be actively supporting all of you who participate and contribute thoughts and discussions about Rail Simulator. I'll be reading your posts and responding to anything that I can - and I'll also be pulling some activities on the forum to get you all thinking about all things American!

May I also introduce you to Claire - who also has moderator access to this US forum and will pop on to post from time to time. Claire is the Game Director for Rail Simulator and will provide more technical posts.

Nels Anderson, who manages the train-sim.com forums, has agreed to open up an official US KRS forum with the aim to raise the profile of Rail Simulator in the USA and to release up to date news that's relevant to the American train simulation fans!

To start things off, we have made an announcement on our website at www.railsimulator.com which talks about our plans.

As some of you might already know - Rail Simulator is planned for release in Europe as this is where we are building our first in-game routes. We are yet to confirm distribution deals for North America - but I can tell you that we intend to release Rail Simulator in North America and other territories for early 2007 - I'll let you know when we have a final decision on this release date.

I'll keep you all updated on the latest news on Rail Simulator - especially anything about North American content, and the latest developments from the US add-on providers.

[wyatt]

Alright! Thank you Sabrina and Claire! Here's hoping you two a good venture in the buisness. How many routes will be included?

I don't get why so many people start flame wars. Maybe it's the high level of oxygen in our forum, or it could be that somebody takes it so seriously, it becomes a way of life.

[wmalder]

Let me be the first to welcome you to these forums. I look forward to any and all offerings rail related. What I've seen so far is impressive and I really can barely wait for the release. Early 2007 seems a long way away but I know it will be here before we know it.

Again, Welcome.

[CPR_Malice_96th]

Sim looks great so far

BUT

The sim would have to have North American content for me to purchase.

I wish you the best of luck with your sim !

Later

[mrmike]

Hi Sabrina & Claire,

Welcome to our side of the pond. We look forward to your announcements & further discussions.

Mike
http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/up1/80513.jpg
http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/up1/66918.gif
This smile says it all

[livercup]

Looking forward to hearing more.


Tom Moyers

http://home.comcast.net/~livercup2/photos/avatar.JPG

[funnelfan]

Cool, I just about missed this for some reason.

[OwainGlyndwr]

Thank goodness for that ,a forum to discuss KRS away from ukts.

regards,
Mike.

[Captain Bazza]

Let me be the first to congratulate Kuju on a sound move. I'm sure this announcement will put to rest a lot of heartache and conjecture.

[OTTODAD]

Welcome from me too, Sabrina and Claire ! :7 :7 :7

We are well acquainted already and needless to say that you can look forward to more useful suggestions from me as and when.

But since your BLACK-5 picture KUJU seem to be doing alright so far and you know already from countless posts in the UK-Trainsim forum what the basic requirements of train simmers are, no matter what country they are living in ! ;-)

Our Main MSTS and Route Design forums frequently deal with all sorts of problems in MSTS which a new train simulator will hopefully deal with, providing much other functionally which is missing in MSTS, one recently having been dealt with by the MSTSBin-1.5.6 rear cabs update.

You are already aware of how much emphasis is being put by many on realistic tracks and switches/points and latest announcement of what KUJU are going to do about them seems to point in the right direction !

I hope that the publicity guys will make a better job of letting simmers know about KRS than Microsoft did with MSTS, providing links to all major Train Sims Web sites and one day perhaps will have our own TRAIN SIMULATOR magazine on sale everywhere in the world !

Appreciate you posting updates here which will save me looking at other train simulator web sites, I do not very often.

Take care, O t t o.

P.S.: It will help Sabrina and Claire not to mention subjects which have already been covered here:
http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewforum.php?f=156&sid=9a054c55b9d3e8c0ce935c0ef6049c26&CUTHERE=160b386c812ee39781f8f5feb5072c9d
if you can spare the time browsing that forum ! ;-)

[rgh69]

Hello Claire and Sabrina in no particular order.

Good news bringers!

[plainsman]

As a physics person with MSTS, I do want to add emphasis that having the ability to model rail performance with fidelity, is at the top of my wish list. I don't want a game, but rather a realistic simulation. Games focus on gameplay, simulations focus on true to life operation. I am especially concerned that the simulator allow for the scale of railroading found in North America. I hope we can build BIG mallets without fudging on the construction either in model or performance. Big North American AC units need to function correctly with a much better wheelslip and traction control model. I hope trailing units operate with better performance accuracy. Obviously, coupler and slack and braking need to be improved from MSTS. And end of train data would be needed to make North American operation handle the 105 car trains we see here all the time. I don't need the models to match North American performance out of the box, but don't hamstring those of us that build accurate physics models with parameters that are not able to function with performance fidelity to real operations.
I do look forward to your product!
Bob Boudoin

[Jonatan]

Hi Sabrina and Claire, w00t!

I like steam eyecandy, will there be steam comming from such things as dynamos, air pumps, drain pipes and such. And will there be possibilities to have animated bells and whistle levers? Would love to see the bell clanging and not only hear it.

But all above are important too.

Thanks :)

/Jonatan

[OTTODAD]

Hi Jonatan !

As I kept saying to my Accounting Software clients, very little is impossible making software do what you want, but at a price ! ;-)

Somewhere KUJU will have to strike a balance between achieving that sort of perfection and still make KRS affordable !

O t t o

[Richard]

Hello Sabrina,
Thank you for the background info on what's been going on over at KUJU with the new Rail Simulator. According to your announcement, there is a planned release of Rail Simulator in 2007 here in the states. Now if I'm reading your announcement correctly, the '07 release here in the states will not contain any North American content, is this correct?

Thanks in advance,
Rich S.

[MRRextreme]

Welcome and good luck with your new sim.

[OTTODAD]

Hi Rich !

Sabrina is a very busy lady so forgive me for answering your question.

The KUJU Rail Simulator will be published by Electronic Arts and I would imagine that one could buy it in Europe to be shipped to other parts of the world, which is what I would do if I were them ?

This is part of what the announcement says:

We also know that the next question will be about North American content – and at the moment we can only say watch this space!
We asked Richard Rogerson, the Executive Producer for Rail Simulator, to give us some background on the plan for a North American release, “The North American market has always been in our minds from the start of the Rail Simulator project. We know that there are a huge number of fans in the US and Canada who are looking for the next step forward in rail simulation. We identified the key things that customers want – fidelity in routes and locomotive operation, alongside flexibility and power in the toolkit to develop their own content; and we believe these are constant across all our markets. In addition, our design of elements like the signaling system has always included enough flexibility to deal with US and Canadian railroad operations. We are confident that Rail Simulator can deliver a simulation product that that can satisfy most fans!”

We have also been talking to a number of US add-on providers and we aim to provide them with support and assistance in the development of high quality commercial add-ons to give the community plenty of choice and scope for expansion.

O t t o

[lateagain]

I've just read through the entire posting on this forum as I was interested to get a feel for the response to this announcement. It's obvious that there are a number of North America specific issues coming to the fore already.

Physics is raised here by Bob and again in another thread.

Signalling.... and lets face it the US has had as many different systems as Europe all within one country and now has radio control over much of it's trackage.

Steam, previously well served by some modellers and publishers and lately finally arriving on the Marias Pass.

Eras of routes, which is important for changes in traffic types. Europe and the UK lost much freight traffic and became more passenger orientated at the same time that the exact reverse happened your side of the pond.

I don't know what you and the moderators think but would it not be helpful to start moving these topics into specific headed threads?

[KujuClaire]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all the warm welcomes :D

We are very busy here working hard as you can imagine but I will try and drop by occasionally to answer the odd question. Remember we are always reading your posts though!

Claire

[BNSF4723]

Just wanted to pop in and say it's awesome that you guys are working with the community like this. I know that it will result in an awesome end product. I can't wait.

[erniep]

I'm looking forward to the unveiling of the KRS. By the looks of it, it will be a vast improvement over the old tired one we are using. Good luck!

cheers,
Ernie :)

[ragtimer]

I hope that Kuju take on board what is said in these forums because a sim which pleases current hobbyists will also please the "punters" who may not know one end of a train from the other but do know correctly functioning software when they see it.I also hope you get the loco and rolling stock physics correct,also everything else involved in train running.As a working,practical railwayman I wince at some of the aspects of the current sim and as a commensense person I am amazed at some of the bugs which survived through to release.How could they be missed,they are so obvious!I could write a book about bugs I know about and another one about basic errors in parameters of braking systems etc.It is just as easy to get things right as it is to get them wrong.I have contacted Kuju re advising on the sim from a "real railway world" point of view and am prepared to offer my knowledge free.Reaction: zero,not even "we have a tame expert already".With that sort of attitude I am sceptical about the quality of the new sim but wait hopefully to be proved wrong.Kuju,if you want to contact me,details on this site.

[OTTODAD]

Hi Peter !

I am not sure whether all you referred to can easily be translated into program code without raising the development cost of what amounts to a train simulator of class 1 railway companies training requirements to above what the less demanding average train simmer is prepared to pay for ! ;-)

O t t o

[ragtimer]

Hi Otto,No I am not referring to anything that is rocket science.As an example re braking systems.In the present sim with air brakes,the system for all locos is as far as I can see based on American practice with a brake pipe pressure of 6 bar using a Westinghouse type system,whereas in this country virtually all freight locos use a PBL (EP) type system with a brake pipe of 5 bar.Thus at present we cannot accurately reproduce the latter system which being based itself on an electronic system must be easy to reproduce in code.Secondly,regarding braking sounds.In the present sim bugs prevent the sounds playing properly;will that be addressed?The vacuum brake is not reproduced properly,will that be addressed?Do they know how braking systems work?I am sure you are aware of plenty of other shortcomings and bugs in the present sim.If they do not explore correct prototype practice they will not be able to even attempt to reproduce it.I am not talking about operating companies simulators either.My experience of those is that they are merely a tool to put mainly trainee drivers into various scenarios to give them experience of "degraded" conditions eg single line working,engineering sites and signal failures,not just train handling experience.That is gained on the real thing.

[OTTODAD]

Hi Peter !

I am not conversant with the technical side of what works a loco other than it's driver console controls, not like you who actually drives them and Bob Boudoin who is an expert on the physics involved.

I have learned a little about the pulling and braking power required to manage a train of a certain length and total weight ! ;-)

I would imagine that the new equivalent of .eng files could be just as modifiable to customize physics for each individual type as suggested by those who know all about the countless ones in service.

I am happy to drive most of the MSTS locos as they are now, having adjusted the physics of some, preferring responsive controls to absolutely prototypically correct reacting ones, I guess the average train sim user would also ?

O t t o

[phydeaux]

Good morning Ladies and welcome to the forums.

Since you obviously are intelligent enough to create a new version of Train Sim, I have to assume that you have been taking stock of what the drawbacks of your earlier version. Having said that I am looking forward to seeing your second generation - and at some time having North American content to run on it.

I probably, in all honesty, though, won't be spending a lot of time here. So far, it appears that the majority of questions and comments have been hijacked by Otto, who apparently fancies himself your official spokesperson. No offense, but if I have a question, I want it addressed by the source, not some self proclaimed expert who may or may not be giving me the correct information.

Anyway, best of luck in your plans and I hope you succeed in taking this sim to the next level.

[OTTODAD]

Hi Larry !

Since you obviously are intelligent enough...

I find that insulting ! x(

So far, it appears that the majority of questions and comments have been hijacked by Otto, who apparently fancies himself your official spokesperson.

Similar comments like this and part of the one below were removed recently, not being at all helpful on the subject.

No offense, but if I have a question, I want it addressed by the source, not some self proclaimed expert who may or may not be giving me the correct information.

You "WANT IT" ? Do you mean "YOU WOULD LIKE IT" ?

The "Source" is busy creating a Train Simulator and unless talked to in an objective and civilized manner will refrain from answering any questions !

And you can take this as being quoted from the "Horse's Mouth" !

O t t o

[phydeaux]

See, you're doing it again.

I trust I've made my point.

[OTTODAD]

Just trying to help these busy ladies save time answering questions which have already been dealt with in the KRS main forum at UK-Trainsim.com, which having reached 5000 posts already contain many suggestions, requests and related comments ! ;-)

Don't expect to get many answers here, the ladies reading this forum occasionally, but will be posting mainly progress announcements and other KRS info of interest to all train simmers, if I don't beat them to it, carrying on doing the same as before in our MSTS forum, reporting KRS matters I think all in our forums should know about !

If you want to know what KRS info has been released to date then check out their web site now and then:
http://www.railsimulator.com/en/index.htm

O t t o

[plainsman]

Otto,
I am certainly in no way trying to create a situation where anyone feels not "talked to in an objective and civilized manner will refrain from answering any questions". However, I do think Kuju would be making an ENORMOUS, and I repeat, ENORMOUS mistake to ignore the input and needs of the North American community. Very few of us have ever been to the UK-Trainsim.com site, and even fewer visit regularly enough to keep updated there, much less use that as a venue for input. If there have been 5000 posts on that board about what are almost completely issues outside the North American region of the planet, then a huge potential share of the market is not getting much input. I don't deminish their needs and significance, I run trains from Europe as well in MSTS, only that a lot of folks that would buy a train simulator want to run North American equipment on it and many will expect those trains to operate with fidelity to North American operation. There is a pretty deep and vast pool of knowledge here (lots of folks other than myself) that is willing to give helpful input to enable that kind of fidelity for North American equipment, but it would not be very polite much less helpful to ignore that uncompensated pool of knowledge which has spent so many hours (should I say years) working to make MSTS function to its capacity. We are a diverse community. But when a professional railroad engineer contacts me with a request to model his particular equipment accurately, I want to be able to address his needs, even if you are satisfied to run things with a different objective, to play a game, which may require much less fidelity of operation. This is not a slam at those that want to use a simulator for their entertainment purposes, but only to point that an experienced engineer will not be entertained by a completely unrealistic program. If it is called a simulator, it should be able to simulate railroad operation, even if oversimplfied, but not incorrectly or without any fidelity. I hope Kuju will take the comments from this community in North America with the sincerity with which many of us have offered them, and use that input to better craft a product that will meet the needs of all the community, in Europe or Australia or South America or North America or Asia or Africa.
Bob

[muskokaandtahoe]

> However, I do think Kuju would be making an ENORMOUS, and I repeat, ENORMOUS mistake to ignore the input and needs of the North American community.

I agree.

But there is a question of when. Whatever may be unique and necessary for North American railroads may already be too late for inclusion in the first release. Should they quickly change the specs and cobble together something on the fly or finish the work they have now and figure out how to change/extend the code to do N.A. content in rev 2? I'm betting they've already chosen the later. And how well whatever it is they do will be limited by the architectural decisions they've already made.

[b]Dave Nelson
SLW Route Design: The Cal-P, 1950.[b]
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/muskokaandtahoe/Avatars/Dancing_Genma.gif
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/muskokaandtahoe/Avatars/4ad3d633.jpg

[plainsman]

Hi Dave,
I know a lot or some may already be locked in stone or steel, whichever the case may be, but to the extent any adaptations or mods could facilitate better world wide compatability for RS-2006, I would hope Kuju would take the time to acquire uncompensated input from the North American community, and certainly not to address the community with threats to punish it for making input.
Bob

[OTTODAD]

I am sure that KUJU are soaking up all the input they can find the time for to read in the KRS forums, here and back home !

How much of it will filter trough into the finished version or versions we shall have to wait and see.

What they have shown us so far reflects some of the feedback. How much of it can be included depends on whether the additional cost of creating program code which is too complicated can be justified and whether train simmers are willing to pay for all the bells and whistles ! What we have seen so far demonstrates their ability to innovate and am sure that we shall get a few surprises ! ;-)

I once made the mistake of not doing adequate market research into what my clients wanted, manufacturing computer workstations / tables for them and almost went bankrupt, sales not materializing ! :-(

If there is a sizable market for a product anywhere, especially if it is a unique one like a Train Simulator, then I am sure it will be exploited and it's customers will get most of what they expect from it or sales will be disappointing !

It's existing, like waiting for Santa Claus ! :7

O t t o

[OTTODAD]

It's existing, like waiting for Santa Claus !

I meant exciting of course ! ;-)

O t t o

[muskokaandtahoe]

> I am sure that KUJU are soaking up all the input they can find the time for to read....

Depends entirely where they are in the project timeline. If it's past "Engage content experts" and "Assess inputs", which it most likely is, the time for inputs for rev 1 is past. Given it's already a year in I'll wager those two tasks were closed quite some time ago.

Asking for stuff now to be included in Rev 1 probably has as much chance of making it as did my request to have Lindsay Lohan deliver my TMTS cd... and that was the thought that was in my mind when I posted that fun request.

But for rev 2, if there is one, I'd say that much of what is written today that is interesting is being saved and hopefully it will, at some future time, be explained by their team of content experts.

[b]Dave Nelson
SLW Route Design: The Cal-P, 1950.[b]
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/muskokaandtahoe/Avatars/Dancing_Genma.gif
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/muskokaandtahoe/Avatars/4ad3d633.jpg

[OTTODAD]

I agree, Dave.

Not all of what is being requested will make it into version 1 of the already well advanced to some stage KRS and as with most new software being released there may be some bugs to be sorted afterward. But this time I think there will be better support from KUJU to maintain ongoing interest !

For a start they now have their own KRS forums in the USA and UK, taking note of feedback, responding to some and as has happened before with the BLACK-5, which was not on the rails properly, with buffer and wheels not being perfectly round, reacting instantly:

http://www.railsimulator.com/en/downloads3.htm

Ignore the digital clock. This may be a preserved in the U.K. period steam route, but features some 21th century station equipment, the clock winders having been retired a long time ago ! ;-)

Making alterations to complicated program code halfway through it's development is like building a house and just before starting to apply plaster to the interior walls say "damn, we could do with another bathroom on the second floor, lets rip the house apart and start again !".

In my days of programming, additional code and functionality could easily be added at any time during and after development, but programming methods have changed and nowadays a program's structure needs to be well designed even before the first line of code is being written !

Microsoft have made a fortune selling the customers new versions of software which most of the time were just "Fixes" of previous ones with a few useless additions, being more cosmetics than anything else of new functionality ! ;-)

O t t o

[plainsman]

Otto,
How can one get on the Kuju forums? Feel free to PM me if you can divulge access info?
Bob

[OTTODAD]

You have e-mail, Bob !

O t t o

[oakpalms]

Sabrina,
I have just taken some time out to really find out what routes Kuju is doing in England. The first route will be really great from Paddington to Oxford. Having lived in London (Ickenham) for three years while assigned to the Navy Headquarters there, I got to spend a lot of time close to Paddington station at a hotel, and I made several trips out of Paddington down to Cornwall during my time there. It will be nice to see some of the track that I grew quite familiar with back in the early 80's.

The second route will be most interesting. The rolling hills south of Bath should be very interesting with what we call a "wash-board" affect. We camped on a hill over looking Bath. It will be a very nice area for scenery. The route is really unusual for the area since it ran almost due north and south rather from the southwest to the northeast toward London.

I am really looking forward to KRS.

Bob Edwards
North Port, FL