Compatibility with North American operations

[funnelfan]

When I first heard that the new Kuju simulator was being designed primarily for the European market, I figured that the pyhsics would be limited to european style of operations. Does the new Kuju simulator support the physics of North American operations? namely diesel-electric locomotives and a single pipe positive flow automatic airbrake system.

[drjoe]

And, the physics "engine" will need to cope with the extended length of North American trains, couplers, braking, friction and drag, slack and bunching, etc.

[OTTODAD]

Don't forget Joe, that they are the ones who created MSTS and should already know much about the physics of rolling stock used in various countries ! ;-)

O t t o

[CPR_Malice_96th]

>
>Don't forget Joe, that they are the ones who created MSTS and
>should already know much about the physics of rolling stock
>used in various countries ! ;-)

Ummm OTTO ... You've played the default version of MSTS right !!

:0)

Later

hehe

[OTTODAD]

Hi Tim !

Ummm OTTO ... You've played the default version of MSTS right ?

Apart from the default ACELA, my visually improved DASH-9 and the MSTS-1.2 SD-402, I am using a lot, all my other rolling stock are add ons, basically using the original KUJU design, albeit with modified cab views, physics, couplers, bounding boxes, wheels on the rails and other settings.

They know how to do it and not rushing to release this time, taking the advice of experts from third party vendors of rolling stock and specialists in the community into account, should come up with more realistic physics of rolling stock this time, front couplers included ? ;-)

Take care, O t t o.

[plavack]

Umm, Otto, what I think he ment is that the default cars and physics were a load of dog crap, because they really sucked .

352

[CPR_Malice_96th]

Sorry OTTO if you took offence.

It was not meant as that

Tryin to make fun of default Train-Sim

:O)

Later

[MRRextreme]

OTTO is probably irritated with people ignoring the fact that Kuju provided editable files to allow users to change the physics of the equipment if they did not meet a user's "exacting" standards.

Instead there still seem to be people who think that when they change a parameter file that they are "fixing" the original software.

[OTTODAD]

No guys, I no longer get irritated ! ;-)

Everybody is entitled to their opinion !

There is nothing much wrong with this MSTS default rolling stock's basic design, improved by others and myself, KUJU under pressure from Microsoft to release MSTS not being able to take the time to do it themselves, like they did with their first KRS loco, the BLACK-5.

Microsoft and it's marketing muscle get away with occasionally releasing some rubbish, being the monopoly it is, but KUJU can not afford not to come up with a Train Simulator which does not meet with most of our expectations !!!

O t t o

www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/downloads/mp3kcons.zip

http://www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/downloads/mp3kcons.jpg

[Gixxer86g]

Despite MSTS' problems,I think it was a good first try.If the folks at KUJU are listening,they can really shine here.

[MRRextreme]

I think Kuju had an excellent first try. I have been running MSTS for 5 years. The look and feel of the sim still looks better than the others. The fact that they were able to write software that allowed vendors like MLT and 3DTrains to create better routes and equipment WITHOUT changing the original software is incredible. Anyone who understands anything about software would see this as a major testament to the quality of their product.

[Bill Hobbs]

I almost uninstalled MSTS until a friend pointed me to the forums and libraries. Upon seeing what others were doing with the basic platform, I too started experimenting. My real interest is some locos and nationality is no barrier. My technical library on steam contains books on American, French, South African, and Chinese locomotives. The differences are uniportant. I would not hesitate to buy the sim with no American content if it were clear that the platform was strong enough to support development of quality add-ons.
My primary enjoyment in this activity has been in figuring out how to get more realistic performance out of TrainSim .eng files. I have gone so far as to take a subset of my own simulations of the steam circuit and apply them to setting .eng variables. I would guess that I have helped set up over 50 steamers at this point, all the way from very small NG locos to the largest locos that can be handled in a single .eng file. I am also working on a sound package for steam locos, using my own "library" of sounds recorded over years of rides.
I look forward to a new sim, but one which I hope will be far better documented and which will make more explicit use of the accepted formulae for such things as cylinder performance, resistance, boiler efficiency, etc.

[SurvivorSean]

Saying that MSTS is an example of fine programming is valid only to the competition that is out there. MSTS certainly is, and remains the best simulation for the years it's been out there. Fact is railroad simulations in whole don't have the consumer base necessary to drive the demand, or have enough resources to make alternatives possible. Not to mention that simulators are the toughest programs to write based on the variables involved.

The problem with the current development of sims is MSTS is the standard, and as the standard is an unsupported, buggy, you know what. Unlike FS that grew both on the support of the community, and support of the authors, MSTS was left alone to rot while the scavengers (us) could try and figure out what we could do with it.

I know there is a lot of wishes popping up now, and not everyone will be pleased. To that I say start small so that the small things work right and we can expand later. Don't box the sim into where it can't expand based on lack of parameters or specifications. Create the benchmark, that will also allow third party software to enhance it.

We know the next sim is not going to be everything everyone wants. There are enough people to add to the good, to make it great. The basics must be done with sound programming and support, and that will make a sim grow.

Thanks

Sean

[oakpalms]

Bill,
Have you thought about sharing your experience and knowledge with KUJU so that they can incoroprate that in to the new sim? I have a feeling that KUJU would gladly receive technical recommendations based upon sound experience. I am sure they must be taking a lot of things from the original MSTS and applying the knowledge that went into it and carrying that over to the new KRS. However, you and many others could really help them with the new sim--it might speed it up by months.

Everyone keeps talking about all the improvements made to the original MSTS and they have been amazing. It would even be a miracle if some of those individuals would share with KUJU some of their "lessons learned."

Bob Edwards

[Bill Hobbs]

Bob,
I have no problem sharing any of my simulations with Kuju. In terms of thermodynamics knowledge, I expect their guys can leave me behind in a few seconds. What I tried to do that goes beyond the mere technical is to get a good sense from the steam era manuals of the way they actually thought about how things fit together and then fit my simulation together based on that. I probably spent as much time trying to find ways to model the inefficiencies of the steam loco as anything.
It was a good exercize for "the little grey cells" as Poirot would say, and a sobering look at just how inefficient the steam loco was. The inefficiencies of combustion and heat absorption are bad, but worst of all is the fact that one can at best recapture the energy required to heat steam from atmosphere to boiler pressure. But even that is not possible because of the problems of exhausting steam from the cylinders and the need to use that steam to create a draft for combustion.
But what great a wonderful commotion they made! For several years, I volunteered with the Friends at Cumbres Pass. Every day the K36's would come thundering up the 4% grade, cutoff and throttles wide open, injectors on, and the fireman working as hard as he could to keep steam up. They would stop for water, the popoffs would blow, and sometimes they would use the power grate shakers that would shake even the ground around. What a morning break!

[maiatcat]

Ya know, I've got to jump in here and go off on a tanget. It is interesting to note that all of the recent failed train-sims from MSTS2 to TMTS have one thing in common: failed attempts to create routes theat involve the PRR mainline that include the Horseshoe Curve. Did the curve bring them to their knees? :-) Only one version, despite its limitations, has successfully been built and expanded. Bill A. told me it took him two years to modify and correct the first version of curve, which in itself took two years to complete. Shall we ask KUJU to do what others seemly have not been able to do? Rumor has it that a version of the mainline exists that goes from Cresson to Gotham; this, however, may only be gossip Maia T. Katz

[ragtimer]

It is over a month since Bill Hobbs offered to share his expertise with Kuju.It would be interesting to hear if they have taken up your offer Bill and if not where they are getting their information re for example steam loco operating parameters.

[Bill Hobbs]

I didn't expect to hear anything and didn't pursue it. Its my belief that they are already past that point in their development and the recent announcements of features seem to support that.
I just recently bought J. Koopmans' book on the front end ("The Fire Burns Much Better...") and am slowing working through all the data in that to perhaps improve my modeling of the draft system. Its a revised doctoral dissertation and has a lot of interesting historical material.