Favourite North American route?!

[kujuSabrina]

Hi all,

So what's your all time favourite route in North America? Please feel free to give any detail as to why you like this particular route - but try to limit one route per poster .... :)


Cheers,
Sabrina

[derickavery]

(1)Maria Pass. Why? It's beautiful. The length of the route is just right.

(2)Tehachapi 2. Another beautiful route. same as above.

[sstyrnol]

Cajon Pass is an interesting stretch of railroading with challenging grades, varying landscape (desert and pacific-californian drylands). There is a mix of operations possible from passenger traffic via commuter operations via local freights to mainline freight trains on the famous transcon.

If modelled in the 1970s-1990s era, one could model three different railroads in the same area with completely different operating policies.

[plainsman]

Crawford Hill. The route is extremely well constructed, the grades are very accurately modeled, the scenery is spectacular. I can find numerous photos from the actual route and see that same view with amazing similarity in MSTS.
The prototype is a 1.7% grade with over 1.55% for 13 miles. The route winds through two horseshoe curves, and is in reality a very active coal route for moving long BNSF coal trains out of the Powder River Basin coal fields. The route needs to extend all the way from north of Crawford Nebraska to Alliance Nebraska.
Bob Boudoin

[oakpalms]

Sabrina,

That would depend upon the length of the route. European routes have numerous towns, tracks, industries, etc. all along the route and you can cram a lot railroad activity in to a very short route. I have noticed that the three routes coming out with KRS are not more than 100 miles long. In Canada and western US, that will make about half of a railway subdivision. Will KRS include an entire Subdivision of 200 or even 300 miles? It should be remembered that American routes will not have near the scenery to be included as a European route would have, thus a 100 mile European route would take longer to construct than even a 300 mile American route in the west.

If it is a route in the Eastern US, then the Subdivisions are shorter and at the same time there are more towns, tracks, and scenery that would be required. Many of the add-on developers appear to be splitting Subdivisions in half apparently in order to get secondary orders. I would like to see completed Subdivisions without any rolling stock rather than half a Subdivision with rolling stock, and then the ability to buy rolling stock separately.

Why a complete Subdivision? There are usually large yards at each end of the route with enough locations in between to result in a heavy railroad schedule. Since KRS is going to do an American route, I would like for us to be able to talk in the terms of a complete Subdivision--which is usually how a "route" will be known, but not always.

I think some of us would like to see a route that has not been done in MSTS feeling that route builders might be able to duplicate those routes in to KRS and make them available. Can we converse in terms of a "Subdivision"?

Bob Edwards
North Port, FL

[oakpalms]

Sabrina,
Let me recommend an old Norfolk and Western route that is now a part of the Norfok Southern system. The NS is the largest carrier in the eastern US. It is approximately 120 miles from Roanoke to Crewe, Virginia. The route has a northern route and a southern route between the two large yards. The northern route goes through Lynchburg, VA where there are additional yards and where there are some beautiful trestles. The NS runs on what one would say the hill tops through Lynchburg and connects via track rights with the CSX route that runs along the James River which would make a great add on route. The CSX runs beside the river on a much lower elevation.

A key feature at Lynchburg is the bridge over the James River which is several hundred feet high. Do a search on Google for the bridge and you will see why. This bridge is on a track that runs north and south while the Roanoke to Crewe track runs east and west.

I fell in love with the beautiful rolling hills and low mountains of this route while visiting the area a year ago. Roanoke nestles amount the mountains of the Blue Ridge along side a nice river valley. The yard has an engine repair facility and is quite large.

Crewe is a major interchange yard with trains going north to Washington, DC and the northeast and south toward Atlanta and Florida. The two east-west routes have major north-south tracks that also connect with them, both CSX and NS.


Thanks for your interest and attention:

Bob Edwards


The below is a write up of the area:


The Blue Ridge District and Farmville Belt Line of the Virginia Division form the ex-N&W main line between Crewe and Roanoke. Crewe, site of a large yard, marks the boundary between the Norfolk and Blue Ridge Districts. Just west of Crewe lies Burkeville, and the junction with the ex-Southern line to Richmond and the Virginia Southern, a RailTex property operating former Southern lines to the south. The N&W passes over the Southern on a bridge in Burkeville.
Between Burkeville and Pamplin City the line splits, in effect making a thirty-mile-long passing siding. The southern leg connects with the former Virginian trackage at Abilene. The northern segment proceeds west across the Appomattox River trestle and through Farmville before rejoining the Belt Line at Pamplin City. Farther west, at the east end of Phoebe (now "Concord"), the old passenger main to Lynchburg once veered off to the north, to follow a circuitous routing along the James River. This line served Lynchburg Union Station, which stood in downtown Lynchburg, by the James River. This station, long ago razed, served trains of the N&W, Southern and C&O. The present line is routed through the southern edge of the city and across Cottonmill trestle, over the Southern, before reaching Kinney Yard. Kinney is connected to the Southern's Montview Yard through a pair of wyes.

The line between Pamplin and Lynchburg is single track with controlled sidings. East of Pamplin, both lines are single-track CTC. Wayside signals are mast-mounted N&W color position lights in many locations west of Pamplin, although they are quickly disappearing. Southern-style "Safetrans" three-color lights have supplanted them in intermediate signal installations near Lynchburg and on the entire Old Main through Farmville. As part of the new signalling, blocks are being lengthened with approximately two blocks replacing what had been three. The Farmville Belt Line has been controlled by Safetrans signals for several years now.

As a rule of thumb, westbound traffic usually takes the Old Main, while eastbounds hold to the Belt Line. High and wide loads are occasionally routed via the Belt Line. The former main line of the Virginian Railway, the favored route for eastbound loaded coal trains, joins the N&W line at Abilene. The Virginian has been abandoned for many years east of Abilene. The old N&W is more directionally balanced, while the ex-VGN is reserved for loaded coal trains. Long passing sidings on the former N&W make for fast-paced action during times of heavy traffic.

The line cross the gently rolling hills of the Piedmont and are readily accessible. Parallel roads, especially US 460 between Farmville and Concord, offer a good view of the action. Stations still stand in Appomattox, Pamplin, Farmville and Burkeville.


Typical traffic and volume


The Blue Ridge District is the main route for manifest, intermodal and empty coal trains from Roanoke to the container and coal ports of Norfolk. The Altavista Dist. (ex-VGN) hosts loaded eastbound coal trains. The line has not seen regular passenger service since the demise of Amtrak's Hilltopper in the early eighties.

Locals: V03 serves the east end of the District from Crewe.


Typical Blue Ridge District Trains

Symbol Type Origin Destination Days of Oper. Notes
Inter-Division Manifests
O52 Manifest Linwood Norfolk As needed High and wide train
O53 Manifest Norfolk Linwood A s needed High and wide train
158 Manifest Linwood Norfolk Daily
159 Manifest Norfolk Linwood Daily
184 Manifest Bellevue Norfolk Daily Autoracks/high-cubes predominate
185 Manifest Norfolk Bellevue Daily Autoracks/high-cubes predominate
Intermodal
227 Intermodal Norfolk Detroit Daily?
228 Intermodal Detroit Norfolk Daily?
233 Intermodal Norfolk Chicago Daily? TOFC/single level COFC
234 Intermodal Chicago Norfolk Daily? TOFC/single level COFC
235 Intermodal Norfolk Chicago Daily? double stack COFC
236 Intermodal Chicago Norfolk Daily? double stack COFC
Virginia Div. Manifests
427 Manifest Hopewell Roanoke Daily
428 Manifest Roanoke Hopewell Daily
456 Manifest Roanoke Hagerstown Daily On Blue Ridge Dist. west of Lynchburg
457 Manifest Hagerstown Roanoke Daily On Blue Ridge Dist. west of Lynchburg
Coal
800 series Coal loads and empties various Norfolk As req'd
Other
V03 Local Crewe Daily Crewe-based local
V62 Refuse transfer train Lynchburg Amelia As needed Moves garbage cars off through freights at Lynchburg to the landfill at Amelia.
371 New York City refuse train Waverly Hagerstown Twice weekly Unit trash train, NSOP on Conrail
372 New York City refuse train Hagerstown Waverly Twice weekly Unit tra

[oakpalms]

By the way, this route passes through some historic American country side. The track goes through Forest, VA which had the largest number of US citizens killed on D-Day at Normandy, and it goes through Appamattox the location where General Lee surrendered at the conclusion of the Civil War.

Check out photos of the area at www.railpictures.net and type in Roanoke, Lynchburg, and Crewe. You will get some idea of the area. I have several high resolution digital photos of the area around Lynchburg, and between Roanoke and Lynchburg in case they are needed. I will be in Lynchburg this weekend for a final visit helping our son pack out his home. I may be able to get some additional photos at that time.

Get in touch with me at oakpalms at comcast.net in case you are interested.

Bob Edwards

[Erick_Cantu]

The CNW AirLine and Lakeshore subs circa mid-70s early-80s along with the connections to Chicago, methinks. It's a little off the beaten path - but there's too much NS and BNSF anyway.

[HAC]

CPR, Laggan and Mountain subs..
why?, well, outside of the history and the challenge of mountain railroading, there's this:

http://members.shaw.ca/hacmsts/images/DSCF0017.jpg>

http://members.shaw.ca/hacmsts/images/Laggan%20Sub%20-%20Lower%20Spiral.JPG

http://members.shaw.ca/hacmsts/images/Laggan%20Sub_Banff%20Station_Eastward.JPG

Cheers
Harold

[USRailFan]

The Northeast Corridor.

Why? Because it is the only place in the USA (or all of North America, for that matter) where one can see European-style railroading - electrified, double/multiple track, high-speed, everything from high-speed express trains and night trains to local commuter trains - with some freight to boot.

[muskokaandtahoe]

Sabrina, your question is not clear as to existing MSTS route or a real route in North America that could be done for KRS/NA. I'm going to assume the later... but it would be nice if you could clarify which of the two you're interested in.

(1) Western Pacific's Feather River Rte in California. This is one of those places where on seeing it you ask yourself why did somebody build a railroad thru this canyon? One of the most rugged canyons in the US w/spring floods raising the river by 100 ft.

http://www.trainnet.org/Libraries/Lib016/WP3548_2.JPG
http://www.trainnet.org/Libraries/Lib016/WP3548.JPG
and the famous Keddie Wye: http://www.somewherewest.com/WesternPacific/KeddieYBNmix.jpg

There is a payware MSTS rte for this due soon.

(2) Denver & Rio Grande's Soldier Summit Rte in Utah. Long tough grades, coal mines on the east side, steel mills, smelters, and sugar refineries on the west side. Castle Rock on the east side:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=59667
and part of the Gillooy Loops

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=72669

In the late 1940's a typical coal train had four F7's up front, four more F7's mid train, and two 2-8-8-2 steamers pushing on the rear.

This has been a rumored route for some time but to my knowledge nothing has been seen of it.


(3) The BC Rail System in Canada has many spectacular locations, such as Seton Lake

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=144265
and Whistler
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=62995

; they also maintained a historic steam operation, RDC Passenger Ops in the modern era, and for a while an interesting electric operation at the far north end.

[b]Dave Nelson
SLW Route Design: The Cal-P, 1950.[b]
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/muskokaandtahoe/Avatars/Dancing_Genma.gif
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/muskokaandtahoe/Avatars/4ad3d633.jpg

[oakpalms]

Dave,
Many of us want to see the Feather River completed. Nalle, who resides in Sweeden, has been working on the route for some time. Hopefully, we will see it done VERY SOON. A major issue with the Feather River may be in getting agreements from the Union Pacific. They seem to be very sticky, even bordering on rude, toward anything done in train sim. I can't imagine anything done with a UP logo or licensed named used in Train sim that would really make a drop in their large pool of money. On the other hand, I can see a lot of train fans who will become upset with their attitude and start a grass root resentment toward them--if that has not already started. With the problem that other add-on users have had with UP, I doubt that KRS will want to deal with them.

Bob Edwards

[oakpalms]

http://www.trainweb.org/varail/nsnw.html#links

Has more info on the Roanoke to Crewe route.

Bob

[oakpalms]

Additional info on routes that connect with the Roanoke to Crewe route may be found at: http://members.trainorders.com/varailfan/guides/

Bob

[SurvivorSean]

Though not developed for MSTS that I'm aware, I've always enjoyed the CN Bala Subdivision from Toronto to Capreol Ontario, Canada. It's a single track railroad with plenty of sidings and nice scenery.

Thanks

Sean

[Henry_S]

I would have to say the ATSF emporia subdivision. In the middle to end of the route (going south/west) you go through S curves and the flint hills at high speeds, and going through small towns along the way.

[OTTODAD]

Hi Sabrina !

You will have a job deciding which should be the first USA route for KRS, there being so many stunning routes as you can see from the pictures in this thread.

Apart from my favourite European routes like the WUPPER-EXPRESS, STADTBAHN-U79, LGV-MED, ALBULA-II, the fictitious ALPENSEE and SEAVIEW-4, it is USA routes I like because of their diversity of scenery and rolling stock and am at a loss to decide which of them I like best, each one offering something lacking in the others.

Of course there are many locals who have their preferences but to condense all of them into one route will be impossible.

It will take some time before everybody gets what they want, which should be good for ongoing business ! ;-)

Did an analysis of the top downloaders from this File Library since 2001 and counted over 35 routes exceeding 3500 downloads, among the top routes the Northeast Corridor-4, Newark & Jersey City, Marias Pass and Whitefish routes versions, etc.

This will give you an idea what you are up against worldwide:
http://forums.flightsim.com/ts/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=3&topic_id=151422&mesg_id=151422&page=

In a nutshell, most of the popular routes run in attractive scenery with a fair amount of trackage for freight and passenger trains activities.

Take care, O t t o.

[WaltN]

Check Model Railroader, December 1966, by Linn Westcott for an area that he called "inspiring." It's the area approaching and north of what is now called Jim Thorpe, PA. LV and CNJ operated there, and there still is action there. Werner Mueller's Lehigh Valley Route for MSTS included the approach to Jim Thorpe (a locale called "The Narrows"), but stopped just north of the LV station. (Just across the river from the LV station was the site of the eastern terminus of the Switch Back Gravity Railroad, the second railway in the U.S., and the subject of my MSTS Switch Back Route.)

As coincidence would have it, this locale plays a role in this month's Model Railroader.

Walt

[philmoberg]

Several come quickly to mind. Of these, the first would be the Shore Line between New Haven, Connecticut, and Providence, Rhode Island. Into the middle of the last century this line handled 300-350 trains a day on double track, the western end of which was (and is) a virtuoso performance in curved track. Traffic consisted of a full range of both passenger and freight service, pulled by an interesting variety of steam and diesel power. Regardless of the player service chosen, this route would be a real challenge to keep time and stay out of the way of other traffic.

Branch lines at Wickford Junction, New London and Old saybrook (to name three) would offer a some variety for the user to the extent they may be included. The route itself would be accurate for any era from the Great Depression through the Penn Central takeover. In fact, except for paint and some of the rolling stock, the New York, New Haven & Hartford was essentially an operating museum, virtually unchanged from about 1914.

Thanks kindly for asking... -Phil

[BN_9402]

UP Sherman Hill

Austin

[oakpalms]

My mistake...the route goes through Bedford, VA which had the most casualties on D-Day. The route does go through Forest which is east of Bedford.

Bob

[oakpalms]

Otto,
I think you have to add Austin Yoder's Pochahontas Route and Bob Wirth's Seligman Sub as being at the top of the list since they have been out for only a short time and both have over 4,000 downloads, and the M&M route from Montgomery to Mobile also has over 4k of downloads.

The Seligman Sub, Marias Pass and Kootenai routes all continues a string of ATSF/BN/BNSF routes and makes easy use of engines and rolling stock which I am sure boosts their popularity. I am a die hard ATSF fan, but gladly pick up on the BNSF.

But, I think it would be great to give emphasis to the CSX and/or the Norfolk Southern. The Lynchburg area does both. It is the only place I know of that has three trestles stacked one above the other each with a different track, and with at least five other high trestles including the James River Trestle. The area has tunnels, mountains, rivers, tons of trees, a lot of sidings, connecting tracks, and even a present day passenger station.

I think this route would very well be complemented by the Pochontas route. The Virginia and West Virginia areas of the US are very beautiful areas and have a big stake in railroading to this day. The variety of trains would certainly exceed anything in the northeast and even the west.

Bob

I would like to Kuju do a route that has not been done

[oakpalms]

Are you sure on that 300-350 trains a day? The BNSF is having its hands full running just over a 100 trains a day on double track--and that is with modern day signal systems.

Bob

[keber]

300-350 trains on a double track is practicaly impossible for long distance routes (special passenger routes are exluded - subways etc.) This would mean a train every 10 minutes for a whole day from 00-24.
Maximum capacity for average European doubletrack mainline is around 160-200 trains per day with modernn signalling.

As of American route proposal: until now-announced routes have more or less flat or hilly terrain. If there will be American route, then there should be some mountanious, preferably from westeren US or Canada. Doesn't matter which one, as long as it is beautiful. ;)

[sgtbean]

Without hesitation: BNSF's Gateway Sub. The traffic is not all that earth shattering but the scenery is absolutely breathtaking.

A good second would be BNSF's Orin Sub (not entirely fair, since I'm modeling that myself for MSTS now, including the stretch of rail between Gillete, Wy and Alliance, Ne that connects to the Orin at Donkey Creek).

There's another ten that I can think of, but I don't want to overdo it ;-).

[philmoberg]

Yep, it was 300-350 trains a day at its best. On the West End, with a four-track, electrified main line, it was about double that. In the peak periods, the New Haven's best passenger trains were running in multiple sections about five minutes apart. It was a very impressive show, particularly during the War years.

I work in the field, and I hear a lot about limits on track capacity these days. Part of the problem is that most contemporary railroads in North America run much longer trains in much longer blocks than they formerly did. This is partly a result of the thinking back in the '50s and '60s, when it was generally accepted that railroads were antiquated and couldn't compete for most classes of traffic. This resulted in a massive reduction in track capacity and operating speeds, among other things. Of course, time and circumstances have moved on, and the railroads are hustling to mitigate yesterday's mistakes. -Phil

[muskokaandtahoe]

I know Nalle and the status of his route. I have an early beta of the route and locomotives as well. Last I heard he was hoping to finish it all this year.

> A major issue with the Feather River may be in getting agreements from the Union Pacific.

Not if you sign away your proper legal rights to use existing marks in products **not** specified by the license holder. For instance, the phrase "Western Pacific" for use on model railroad equiment, is trademarked to a fellow in Florida and **not** to the UP (damn fool failed to register the hearldry when he did the phrase) and while it may be out there, I've failed in my search of the trademark registery to locate text that says UP holds marks for use in the software game market. It might be out there but I cannot find it.

Anyway, UP has licensees for MSTS payware routes so it's not really an issue to them anymore.

> On the other hand, I can see a lot of train fans who will become upset with their attitude and start a grass root resentment
> toward them--if that has not already started.

Now there is an understatement!

I'll make a prediction: In Union Pacific vs. Huxtable dba SteamScenes, UP will settle on very, very generous terms to Mr Huxtable because if they don't, they'll lose their marks everywhere outside of the real transportation business. They already dumped the first legal team they hired and w/ the CEO being deposed on such topics as "what actions have been taken by UP and associated companies (e.g., WP) from inception to present to control the use of marks by third parties...." the license program is looking more and more to them like the incredibly stupid mistake it is. Wonder what this suit is costing them in legal fees, not to mention the CEO's time spent in depositions.

[muskokaandtahoe]

The gateway is a part of the old Western Pacific Feather River rte. See photos posted above.

[b]Dave Nelson
SLW Route Design: The Cal-P, 1950.[b]
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/muskokaandtahoe/Avatars/Dancing_Genma.gif
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/muskokaandtahoe/Avatars/4ad3d633.jpg

[Jonatan]

A Yanka steam route, with steam stock. Like the... uh... uuuuh... the Cass Scenic Railroad! =D
It got steam, it's scenic, it got SHAYS (wooo!) and it's way cooler that any diesel clag road.

Me thinks there is enough diesel clag already. Clag clag... clagga. >>'

/Jonatan

[eaglefan9727]

I would say Sherman Hill or Soldier Summit. Those are the 2 routes that I would like to see if you guys do a USA route.

Eaglefan

[NorthShore_364]

I'd like to see the Pittsburgh Line as it appeared in the 90's. It's a three track line with lots of traffic and has some pretty good scenery.

[bessemer]

MMM Yes! Pittsburgh line! Conway would be a nice addition there too...

[Matt Vince]

I would agree with Phil on the point of capacity. 300-350 trains/day - I'm presuming this means an average of 150-175 trains/day/direction - is possible, with relatively short block sections and at least 3-position signalling (Clear, Approach, Stop), giving sufficient advance warning of at least one block section. The average headway for that is about 8-9 minutes - with automatic signalling, that should mean minimum permitted headways of about 3-5 minutes. I'd take my hat off to the schedulers at the NYNH&H who had to plan those timetables - in the days long before computers.

The Shore Line would be impressive - particularly if a sufficient part of the electrified section were included.

[NickF]

D&RGW Tennessee Pass

Here's why:
http://www.somewherewest.com/RioGrande/RioGrande.html

No further comments necessary, from my perspective.

Nick

[philmoberg]

They actually went to a three block system fairly early, using two-headed high semaphores. The western end of the Shore Line was at least partially converted to two-headed colour lights shortly after the War (if not earlier), since I have photos of steam passing such signals positively dated to 1948. On the Main Line (a.k.a. the West End), west of New Haven, the two-headed semaphores survived into the '80s.

I agree with Matt, the electrified section (west of New Haven) would be even more impressive, given a good graphics engine, which I understand KRS has... -Phil

[cn bala]

I have to agree with Sean's comments about CN Bala Subdivision also -- that is one of my favourite route. How's about another Canadian route between Montreal and Toronto on CN line which is one of the busiest railway for freight and passenger trains. Or CP line between Toronto and Montreal as well only with freight trains.

Thank you

John P. Mackay
Belleville, ON Canada

[Bill Hobbs]

Instead of any specific preference, how about an initial route that could represent multiple eras, e.g. steam, transition or modern? That way you could appeal to multiple audiences with a single route.

[muskokaandtahoe]

You'd still have to pick a location Bill as well as an owner. Or were you thinking of a fictional route?

[b]Dave Nelson
SLW Route Design: The Cal-P, 1950.[b]
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/muskokaandtahoe/Avatars/Dancing_Genma.gif
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/muskokaandtahoe/Avatars/4ad3d633.jpg

[mjs2101]

Chicago in the 1940's - 1950's! A big variety of railroads showcasing many of the famous passenger trains of North America during the "Golden Age".

Mykel

[Nscale1700]

I'd say that looking in the state of Pennsylvania might be a good idea. There are numerous areas where more than one railroad ran parallel, crossed over each other, or shared tracks. By making a route with two or more railroads' trackage included, you will please twice as many people!

Some basic ideas, starring many railroads in not-too-large areas:

The Lehigh Valley region. The current MSTS route features five or more significant railroads. You get INCREDIBLE industrial swicthing in Bethlehem Steel, more coal trains than you'll ever be able to count, passenger operations, and the everpresent mixed freights. Don't forget cement trains behind Lehigh & New England ALCo's!

Commuter and freight operations around Phiadelphia. Pennsy, Reading, B&O, SEPTA, Amtrak, etc. as far as passenger, with freight lines and intercity switching... what could be better? Throw in the trolley routes and there truly is something for everyone.


Give the idea of two or more railroads per route some thought. Like I said, by targeting more than one railroad, you will get so many more rail enthusiests running out to buy the sim because their favorite railroad is in it!

[Bill Hobbs]

Dave,
Perhaps I should have put it differently. I don't have a strong preference on routes per se: I've found any number of different routes to be interesting. What interests me most is not being stuck with a route that cannot reasonably be operated in any period except the present. That would mean potentially looking at the track arrangements from some mid-point in time, say the 50's or 60's rather than the TOC or present.
My own personal prefernce is perhaps too eccentric for widespread appeal. Having found Ian Wilson's book "Steam Over Palmerston" a few years ago, I find the operations on that part of the CN to be very interesting: a division point serving multiple branch lines with daily mixed trains in nearly every direction. If I were to ever build another layout, I would consider making that yard the center. But that is a strictly steam era effort. It didn't survive long into the diesel era as trucks took over the LCL.

[BN_9402]

>D&RGW Tennessee Pass

I'll second that!

Austin

[jbt1024]

BNSF River Sub, St. Louis to Memphis, beautiful :+

Jonathan

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v678/jbtsd40/DSCF0334.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v678/jbtsd40/DSCF0331.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v678/jbtsd40/DSCF0419.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v678/jbtsd40/DSCF0425.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v678/jbtsd40/DSCF0426.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v678/jbtsd40/DSCF0427.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v678/jbtsd40/DSCF0447.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v678/jbtsd40/DSCF0459.jpg

[jay611]

Western Maryland Railway Connellsville Subdivision

http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/9954/photo25.html

:D

Jason Underwood
Newport News, Virginia
CSX Peninsula Sub MP.16
jay611@cox.net

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/jay611/BP.gif
My photo's http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?userid=1195

[muskokaandtahoe]

Here's another good route -- The Southern RR (now NS) between Asheville NC and Spencer NC. Up and down mainline, then a long, sometimes very steep climb. A fair number of furnature factories in the old days, power plants today so there is both switching and mainline running. One of the more interesting aspects of this route is the loops near Old Fort. This is also the area of the steepest grades -- IIRC a few sections at 4%. Here's a map, below.

[b]Dave Nelson
SLW Route Design: The Cal-P, 1950.[b]
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/muskokaandtahoe/Avatars/Dancing_Genma.gif
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/muskokaandtahoe/Avatars/4ad3d633.jpg

[OTTODAD]

Reading with great interest all the various suggestions about which route to feature in the first KRS-USA routes release, it again becomes apparent that there will be no pleasing everybody ! ;-)

I would create a route which characterizes what makes USA routes different from those in other countries and not worry too much about whether it is prototypical every inch of the way !

A mixture of desert and forest clad mountains scenery, sprinkled with typical USA towns and industries and most important a great variety of tracks to allow whatever rolling stock will be available to run on it. The average USA train simmer would not know the difference between one or the other anyway. ;-)

More specific routes will not doubt be developed later.

Lets have a perfectly working Train Simulator and Routes Creating tool first, the rest will follow ! ;-)

O t t o

[kmanc21]

>Reading with great interest all the various suggestions about
>which route to feature in the first KRS-USA routes
>release, it again becomes apparent that there will be no
>pleasing everybody !

Absolutely true!

>I would create a route which characterizes what makes USA
>routes different from those in other countries and not worry
>too much about whether it is prototypical every inch of the
>way !

Disagree with the last part of this statement. It should be as prototypical as possible.

>A mixture of desert and forest clad mountains scenery,
>sprinkled with typical USA towns and industries and most
>important a great variety of tracks to allow whatever rolling
>stock will be available to run on it. The average USA train
>simmer would not know the difference between one or the other
>anyway.

Again I have to disagree. I believe most of us that are in this hobby now know what the difference is between the original Marias and Marias 3.1 and the original NEC and NEC4. In addition, what if the European routes that are originally created for KRS are just a representation of all the different areas of Europe instead of prototypical. Would you feel the same?

>More specific routes will not doubt be developed later.

Again, true.

>Lets have a perfectly working Train Simulator and Routes
>Creating tool first, the rest will follow !

I would assume this to be true as well, although I suspect that the sim will be far from perfect at the beginning. I believe most of us just want the mistakes of the past eliminated and include an easily learned and used route creating function.

[OTTODAD]

Hi Ken !

I got over 50 routes installed and don't know any of them for real, the HEIDI, ALBULA, SEMMERING, LEOBEN and other Austrian routes excepted, taking their representation of what and where they are for granted.

Prototypical they will have to be as far as rolling stock, switches and signaling are concerned, but whether the scenery and everything in it matches reality to the dot is of less importance to me. ;-)

O t t o

[NewEnglandRailFan]

I would have to say the Conrail or CSX Boston line from Selkirk Yard near Albany, NY to Boston is long overdue for MSTS, and would be great to see it in KRS. If you ask me, it is one of the most beautiful lines in the country with everything from high bridges and long steep mountain grades to urban commuter railroading in the Boston area.

Some backup for my plea:
http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=124650
http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=122578
http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=134753
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=144970
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=82399

[batt]

I'm with you, Bill. Era would mean much more to me than location. Any route where I could operate steam locomotives or first generation diesels without having to look at modern cars, strip malls, burger joints, or people playing with their I-pods along the right of way would suit me fine. Better to see coal docks, water tanks, ash pits, and 57 Chevys instead!

Matt

[Guilford343]

I am with Dave on this one 100%. The Conrail or CSX Boston Line would be sweet. Really sweet. :)

[rgrader]

To be honest, I would be a little partial to a good rendition of BNSF's route through the Cascade Tunnel, in Washington.

Wyatt

[huddy]

I'm a Texas man so I'd be partial to something like the GC&SF (ATSF) Gulf Divison. The routes don't hold as much traffic as they used to but turn back the clock to the late 40's-early 70's and presto requesto, you end up with:

Top tier passenger service (Texas Chief)
Good mix of freight ops.
Nice power. Big steam, tons of F-units, and early GP's and all sorts of other good stuff.
Single track with 90 mph operation in a short area
Several yards.
Lots of interchanges with other railroads.
Good variety of industry, e.g the now defunct bomb plant in my home town to name one special one.
Major shops
Good mix of urban and rural setting depending on what is modeled.


But if I was having to reccomend something my travels, I would highly recommend a route through, or ending in, Kansas City.

[oakpalms]

The route nfrom Wenatchee to Everett was just released--I would think KRS would want to do a route that does not deprive payware addon companies.

Bob Edwards

[oakpalms]

Some of you guys are asking for a multi era route. A good selection of buildings can keep it marginal at least. I would say the largest number of users would prefer turn of the century era with the steam-diesel transition emphasis second.

Bob Edwards

[SurvivorSean]

Interesting point of how you won't please everyone. I honestly don't believe anyone expects their favorite railroad to show up, nor will it influcence sales of the simulator (< 1% imho)

Getting the bugs corrected from MSTS, better editors, and better support I think will go a long way, and I do expect at least that much.

If a route is chosen though, it should be prototypically correct not for the majority of people who may not know it from a hole in the wall. It should be correct for those that know it inside out. This will only encourage realistic activities for the area, by the people who know it best.

I think there are many people willing to give up some information for them to get it correct. But if for some reason they can't then create a fictional route, and let's concentrate on the program and get it right this time.

Thanks

Sean

[OTTODAD]

Hi Sean !

Yes indeed, lets get the programs right first, simulator and editors and then create routes, which apart from being representative of the country they are in also make use of all the capabilities a new Train Simulator has to offer.

Looking back at MSTS, which included the MARIAS PASS and NORTHEAST CORRIDOR routes to start with, this has been achieved by it and checking the download figures for routes in these areas in our File Library seems to suggest that they are among the most popular ones !

Most other routes, being more of interest to those who know them well than the majority of train simmers, can be left for later but their sales potential has got to justify the cost of creating them.

Period routes did not change much as far as the scenery they are in is concerned, tracks textures and rolling stock can be changed easily but signaling and it's railroad companies variations could be extra work.

Whatever KUJU release will be welcome as long as it is heaps better than MSTS ! ;-)

O t t o

[USRailFan]

>Some of you guys are asking for a multi era route. A good
>selection of buildings can keep it marginal at least. I would
>say the largest number of users would prefer turn of the
>century era with the steam-diesel transition emphasis second.

Oh? Really?

[stationmaster]

Rather than just scenery, I like routes that has losts for meets. Single track with lots of traffic.

Ron
http://www.railwaystation.com

[wakeboarder82]

[font color=red][font size=16]CSX Boston Line[/font size=16][/font color=red] all the way. We really need a decent route for New England.

PS. What I really want to see is the Pan Am Railways West End. Since it's not a class 1 though I cast my vote for the parallel CSX Boston Line. I figure you will likely go for a class 1 instead of a regional.

[OTTODAD]

I have been a fan of the AMTRAK cross-country scenic routes for a long time, still trying go get a ride on one some day !

How about one of the most popular ones, the MARIAS PASS used by one of them and versions of that route being among the most downloaded from the File Library, as is the NEC-4.

Could be too much to ask for such an opener though ! ;-)

O t t o

[CSX4878]

>[font color=red][font size=16]CSX Boston Line[/font
>size=16][/font color=red] all the way. We really need a
>decent route for New England.
>
>PS. What I really want to see is the Pan Am Railways West End.
> Since it's not a class 1 though I cast my vote for the
>parallel CSX Boston Line. I figure you will likely go for a
>class 1 instead of a regional.


I know someone currently working on the West End. Although the post was deleted because lack of interest, I am sure you will be able to ask for an update. He has gotten far with it too. He located here at Maple Leaf Tracks.

http://mltdownloads.com/forum/index.php?showforum=35

Forgot to mention that If it is possible to convert it over to KRS once it is released, with no hassle, I am sure if asked he will be able to do so.

[TrainFanAmtrak]

I think my favorite route is the Pacific Surfliner why there is passenger running on that route and also it runs along the ocean.

Thanks

[muskokaandtahoe]

Well I guess this thread has died down enough I can make a shameless plug for the Cal-P route, ca. 1950, (see .sig). :) Southern Pacific's entry to it's terminal on San Francisco Bay -- a trainshed w/ferry boats on one side, passenger trains on the other. A waterlevel route of urban w/plenty of industrial switching leading off into rural country side. Extensively researched w/ RR engineering maps on hand, 100' to the inch. :)

http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/up1/108714.jpg

[b]Dave Nelson
SLW Route Design: The Cal-P, 1950.[b]
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/muskokaandtahoe/Avatars/Dancing_Genma.gif
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/muskokaandtahoe/Avatars/4ad3d633.jpg

[OTTODAD]

Yes, Dave, you guys in the States are lucky to have many stunning routes, the likes of some we may have a few of in the alpine regions. No seaboards routes to speak of and certainly no desert routes !

The problem will be choosing one, without putting their names into a hat and draw lots ! ;-)

O t t o

[oakpalms]

Otto,
I think one of the first things to be done by KRS would be to determine the railroad that they are going to model. I am assuming that if KRS puts in an American route that KRS will not leave us to run European cars. From KRS's perspective there are currently five major railroads in the US--BNSF, UP, CSX, NS, AND KCS. If you are going to select one of the railroads that have folded, the PRR for example, then that would be of a prior era, but does not change anything. The Canadian railroads are now very much in partnership with an existing US company. I think it is is UP with CP and BNSF with CN. So picking a company that links up with a Canadian partnership and then picking a route that is used by both the Canadian company and the US company might be a compromise to gain support on both sides of the border. I know there are routes that run along the upper Mississippi River that are that way, and there are routes out of Chicago that are also that way. In this day and age it is not uncommon to see a Canadian engine far from Canada!

Once KRS determines the railroad they will model, then suggestions should be made as to which route would be best. As it is, there are hundreds of routes and everyone has favorites and that is very little help. KRS should take the lead in selecting the railroad and then the route after that with input from us users.

I am hoping that KRS will allow duplication of an identical route so that the route can be made for a different era, such as, steam, steam to diesel, and diesel only. A simple path definition could make that possible.

I believe that modeling a current railroad rather than one that is no longer in existence will result in more purchases by American fans. I for one strongly suggest that KRS stay away from the UP. They have simply not been very friendly to train-sim fans. In fact, they have caused some payware builders to give up making UP rolling stock over their strict copywrite requirements.

The BNSF was a big supporter of train sim even pushing the software by paintings on a real engine. If you are going to make a US/Canadian connection that would be the best one. On the other hand, if Kuju wants to push a US company only then why not pick either CSX or NS? I think KRS is wise enough to know that a US route will produce more sales than a Canadian road and route, if there will be only one American route.

KRS--pick the road, then the route. Let's get the horse before the cart!

Bob Edwards

[Hack]

I believe Kuju may be looking to an outside source to develop KRS payware routes to be released separately, but concurrent with the US release of KRS and not part of the core program. Rumor has it that one route is be centered in the Northeastern US, while the other is Canadian-based.

Cheers!
Marc - 3DTrains
http://www.3dtrains.com

[link:www.3dtrains.com/products/index.shtml|http://www.3dtrains.com/images/pro_funit_atsfmain.jpg]

Pro Series v4.0 SuperPacks

[OTTODAD]

Thanks for the info on North American railroads, Bob, many of us Europeans know little about !

Was there not also a problem with one railway company not allowing their their logos or models of their locos to be used ?

What you and Marc say makes a lot of sense and it could be a case of "As one can not please all the people all of the time, try pleasing most people most of the time". ;-)

O t t o

[SurvivorSean]

That would be Union Pacific a.k.a. as Onion Pacific (a bunch of whiners if you get the drift).

Thanks

Sean

[oakpalms]

Hi, Otto.
We Americans do not know much about the European railroads either. I have been fortunate enough to have lived in England three years and rode several trains, but would still not say that I know much about anything over there. I am looking forward to the routes coming out with KRS since I have spent time on the route west out of Paddington down to Cornwall. I also took British rail into London from Ickenham where we lived. The trains were a great way to travel.

The route out of Bath sounds very interesting. I may be wrong, but I think I saw that you live in Bristol. That is not too far from this second route--at least where it used to be. Have you gone over to check out the actual surroundings? My wife and I hope to get back to England sometime in the future. Maybe we will get over for a visit.

Bob

[OTTODAD]

Hi Bob !

Have you gone over to check out the actual surroundings?

Now that's a great idea to get me away from my computers for a day, thanks ! ;-) I live North of Bristol and can skirt it via the A46 to get there.

My wife and I hope to get back to England sometime in the future. Maybe we will get over for a visit.

Would love to meet you and perhaps treat you both to Dinner ?

Take care, O t t o.

[landnrailroader]

Sabrina,

As you can see the favorite railroads are diverse, numerous, and all very good.

I specialize in creating freeware routes of abandoned lines. This is one reason that I intend to stick with MSTS until someone comes out with a simulator that is really stable, and for which, preferably, at leasted fixed and rolling stock assets can be translated to the new simulator.

For me, the favorite would be any part of the Milwaukee Road Rocky Mtn. or Coast Divisions, as electrified. The Washington-Idaho division could be supplied by free ware developers.

Someone else mentioned the former Southern (now NS) route between Salisbury & Asheville, NC and I would second that in a heartbeat. If simulated during the period of 1930-1970, Textile mills would abound in every town, and light industry. Trains would be loose car freight with boxcars and depending on the period, either steam or diesel.

If simulated after about 1960, certainly 1970, the textile mills were mostly gone to China, and now the passenger trains are gone too, but these are replaced with Intermodal and Unit Coal trains. The most spectacular part of the line is the 12 rail miles between Old Fort and RidgeCrest, NC. Grade in excess of 2.5%, curves to 20-degrees, and several tunnels, all short except Ridge, Burgin, and Swannanoa, the summit tunnel. Although there is no loop on the line, i.e. loop of track, there are two or three sidings, and at one location, the track goes almost completely around a fountain (Andrews Geyser) which in the winter can be seen from far up the mountain. Also in the winter, an observer at the fountain can see a train at 13 locations around and above their location.

J. H. Sullivan
Florida

[ns_sd70m]

PRR/Conrail/NS Pittsburgh line! :7

It runs from Pittsburgh to Altoona and is 3-tracked mainline in most places. Traffic is extremely diverse, with intermodal, manifest, auto, and coal. Amtrak's Pennsylvanian (passenger train) also runs on it several times a day. But most important is the history behind it, such as the famous horseshoe curve near Altoona, PA. The route runs through the beautiful Allegheny mountains and yard operations can also be simulated at places such as Conway yard. Three eras could be possible: Pennsylvania Railroad (before 1970s), Conrail (1970s-late 1990s), and Norfolk Southern (current).

Some pics at various places on the route:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=93413
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=136422
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=147366
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=5660
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=2735
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=141897
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=152867
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=153050

[NW 1218]

I would say something in the Chicago area would be a wonderful route. Theres plently of routes to do, and to date, no one has done one for the Chicago area that is actually of pure realism. We have ChiLand and Chicago Stations which are nice but do not run through all of the towns and such. Just a thought..........

[Henry_S]

>But if I was having to reccomend something my travels, I would
>highly recommend a route through, or ending in, Kansas City.

EXACTLY! The perfect route would be the ATSF Emporia subdivision.

[Steamdude]

How about The last operating Narrow gauge steam railroad in america?

East Broad Top

"Designated a National Historic Landmark in 1964, the EBT is also the most complete historic railroad site in North America."

http://www.ebtrr.com/history.html

[maiatcat]

Actually, your statement is not completely true. The White Pass and Yukon, a narrow guage railroad, still operates both steam and diesals and is more than just a turist railroad as is the Eastbrpad Top.

[maiatcat]

Ya know, I've got to jump in here and go off on a tanget. It is interesting to note that all of the recent failed train-sims from MSTS2 to TMTS have one thing in common: failed attempts to create routes theat involve the PRR mainline that include the Horseshoe Curve. Did the curve bring them to their knees? Only one version, despite its limitations, has successfully been built and expanded. Bill A. told me it took him two years to modify and correct the first version of curve, which in itself took two years to complete. Shall we ask KUJU to do what others seemly have not been able to do? Rumor has it that a version of the mainline exists that goes from Cresson to Gotham; this, however, may only be gossip Maia T. Katz

[TrainFanAmtrak]

Hi Bob,
I know some European routes because I went to Europe in June. I took trains to the sites I wanted to see. Like Ive been on First Great Western : London Paddington to Cardiff. The GNER and those London Southwestern Trains out of Waterloo station.I also took the Eurostar from France to England. The First Great Western from London Paddington witch I have been on is going to be in Kuju Rail Simulator.

Also I rode the Underground a lot during my trip where some of those places were bombed during July of last year. The Doncaster to York route which I also been on is going to be another route modelled in that KRS.I liked those Intercity 125 locos because those locos are very fast and also those are going to be in the sim.

[railguy]

Last operating narrow-gauge steam railroad in America? Give me a break! I guess some people think America ends at the Ohio River. Not to put down the EBT, but it sure isn't the only one. How about the Durango & Silverton and Cumbres & Toltec? Steam every day during the season--longer routes, more scenic (in my opinion). Both would be interesting simulator routes. How about the Georgetown Loop? A reconstruction, but steam. White Pass & Yukon operates steam on occasion.

[maiatcat]

The Durango and Silverton already exists in the SIM. I already indicated the situation on the White Pas and Yukon. Specifically the WPY operates steam on Sundays only when the trains goes to Lake bennett. Maia

[heavymetal91]

>Crawford Hill.

This is my favorite as well and I agree it needs to extend all the way to Alliance, and more possibly to the interchange where the route heads south to denver and west into wyoming. My grandfather rode these tracks all the time when he worked for the BN, I remember watching trains as they traverled from Alliance and headed into Scottsbluff, NE and Mitchell (Where my other grandparents lived), and into Morill, and Henry and finally into Torrington ,Wy. Ahhh some very fond memories there



Joel Dunsmore

[eashock]

Jim Wrinn did an excellent write up of this route in the August issue of Trains Magazine...

...then again, I'm a little biased. *lol*

-Eric Shock
Salisbury, NC


>Here's another good route -- The Southern RR (now NS) between
>Asheville NC and Spencer NC. Up and down mainline, then a
>long, sometimes very steep climb. A fair number of furnature
>factories in the old days, power plants today so there is both
>switching and mainline running. One of the more interesting
>aspects of this route is the loops near Old Fort. This is
>also the area of the steepest grades -- IIRC a few sections at
>4%. Here's a map, below.
>
>[b]Dave Nelson
>SLW Route Design: The Cal-P, 1950.[b]
>http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/muskokaandtahoe/Avatars/Dancing_Genma.gif
>
>http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/muskokaandtahoe/Avatars/4ad3d633.jpg

[SPS 700]

Hello Sabrina, I would like to see the following

Southern Pacific Royal Gorge Route aka Tennessee Pass in it's full length which is 300 or 400 miles I think. It is hands down the most beautyful route in the world!

Rio Grande Moffat Tunnal in it's full length.

The closed Rollins Pass since 1928 when the Moffat Tunnel was completed.

The WP Feather River Canyon in it's full length.

UP over Sherman Hill in it's full length.

UP Hinington and Hinckle Subs in it's full length.

ATSF Raton and Glorieta pass in it's full length.

And the whole Narrow Gauge Circle as it was called in Colorado. in it's full length.

[edlight1]

I would like something with

1. Lots of "cosmetic curves"
2. Lots of ups and downs
3. Pretty countryside.

Not a route with one long boring grade.

[WSteven1]

Narrow Gauge...the East Tennessee & Western North Carolina/Linville River Railroad, hands down! The ET&WNC portion ran from Johnson City, Tennessee to Cranberry, North Carolina; and the LRR portion ran from Cranberry, North Carolina to Boone, North Carolina. My wife is from Johnson City, Tennessee (lived there ALL her life 'till moving to Knoxville 2 1/2 years ago to marry me) and I've worked that area for 20+ years.

Standard Gauge...the Cincinnati, New Orleans & Texas Pacific Railroad (part of the Southern Railway <now Norfolk Southern System>) from Cincinnati, Ohio to Chattanooga, Tennessee. My family has worked on this line for three generations.

Bill Stevens ~ Knoxville, TN

[csxac44_69]

CSX's Chicago-NJ chicago line.. Chicago,IL to Willard,ohio is a good 2xx miles.. plenty of trains run over this line and there are tons of interlockings to make it interesting.. alot better than mountain railroading in my oppinion.

[SCL-A-Line]

Horseshoe Curve
Chicago Area Commuter Trains
Burlington Northern In the Cascades From Seattle Eastward
Any Coal Hauling Routes Old N&W,Clinchfield,Etc would Be My Favorite

[oakpalms]

Jason,
I think the Horseshoe Curve would be a good route, but I have the feeling a lot of people want to make it into a 3 and 4 track race course--have as many trains as possible on the curve. My feeling is that if you have more than two trains on that curve then it will slow the frame rates to a standstill especially if any high poly cars are involved.

For that reason, it really takes away the reality of the curve itself. What benefit is it if you can't use it limited to only two trains? It becomes the same as a dual track mainline of which there are many more which have more to offer than the HorseShoe Curve area.

Bob Edwards

[SCL-A-Line]

Well Bob,

First, this thread was asking what our favorite North American Route is, Correct? ok just checking, so I answered what my favorite was.
(of Course the Florida A Line is Mine and I will be back to develop the A Line but now I have decided to start from scratch in the new Kuju Product when it becomes available)

I understand the frame rate Issue, however with newer more modern machines out that can possibly run that much it should not be a problem, take what i have been hearing about the newest flightsim, people with antiquated machines are going to have to accept the fact that it is time for a hardware upgrade, most of the newer games coming out will require more horsepower than say 3 years ago.

I had to bite the bullet and upgrade, i love my machine but with the eventuality of multi threaded applications DirectX 10 and more and more graphically intense games coming out well I had no choice.

The New railyway sim no matter how well kuju optimizes it will most likely require a more robust machine than many people feel they should get right now.

I Purchased Company of Heroes and Silent Hunter III and had an older model GeForce card, well the frame rates really sucked until i went out and purchased a $250 video card, now since i purchased this card I have absolutely no Problems, next upgrade is ram.

So no matter how many people on this board dislike the fact that they may have to upgrade, well then dont expect stellar frame rates
or performance


not trying to start a fight but I just didnt understand Bob's Reply

Jason Webb
SCL/CSX A Line (Jacksonville-Tampa)
www.jpwtrucking.com

[landnrailroader]

Worse than that Jason. KUJU is already optimizing their product to require a "physics processor". As there is only one vendor of these right now, I checked the price on one through BestBuy and it was nearly as much as my current pooter cost. Now they do say that you can run without this add-on card but will not get the full effect.

I upgraded last fall to a 3.6G Athlon-64/3000, with 1G of memory, and what was then the hottest PCI-e graphic card available. Fortunately, having set myself up as a business, I got the pooter wholesale and can get whatever the dealer sells the sameway, but he specializes in business application machines. The current set up with Win-XP-Pro runs MSTS great, as well as TRAINZ-2006, but it remains to be seen about KUJU.

Jerry Sullivan
Jacksonville (also on the about to be severed "A" line)

[SCL-A-Line]

Jerry,

Did you get my e-mail

I priced my ultimate Machine including a physics processor from alienware - $9000

included a geforce dual processor gpu with 758 MB ram 4 gb sdram
and a liquid cooling system

man we are getting priced out of all our hobbies

[landnrailroader]

No, didn't get the E-mail. $9K, egad, my wife would have a stroke
and I would probably land in the hospital. My Pickup didn't cost but $14K.

The physics processor was about $400 from BestBuy and my entire machine cost be $950 last October. (I already had a monitor). I have 4 computers in all. One of them was discarded by CSX and I acquired it, actually two of them, and got one working. It has a SCSI port as does my HP scanner that will no longer do color relibably, but does greyscale okay, so I use it for negative scanning. This old battleship weighs about 75lbs. and is the pizza-box variety. I keep it stored under the model railroad until I need it - it is running WIN-95 which is the only OS the scanner will operate with.

Jerry

[van2001ko]

>Ya know, I've got to jump in here and go off on a tanget. It
>is interesting to note that all of the recent failed
>train-sims from MSTS2 to TMTS have one thing in common: failed
>attempts to create routes theat involve the PRR mainline that
>include the Horseshoe Curve. Did the curve bring them to their
>knees? Only one version, despite its limitations, has
>successfully been built and expanded. Bill A. told me it took
>him two years to modify and correct the first version of
>curve, which in itself took two years to complete. Shall we
>ask KUJU to do what others seemly have not been able to do?
>Rumor has it that a version of the mainline exists that goes
>from Cresson to Gotham; this, however, may only be gossip Maia
>T. Katz
>
>


Sorry for the late reply, but i'm working on a SEPTA system which does indeed inclues both Ex-PRR mainline and also the Ex-reading mainline as well. I'm wondering what route of the PRR are you working on?

[FrederickW]

I would love to see the scenic Canadian Pacific River Subdivision (ex-Soo Line, nee-Milwaukee Road.) from Saint Paul, Minnesota to La Crosse, Wisconsin. :)

Here are just a few reasons why I think it would be a great choice:

*It starts in Saint Paul, Minnesota, the site of a large train yard shared by two railroads, CP and BNSF.
*It is paralleled across the mighty Mississippi River by the BNSF for most of the 130+ miles of the Route!
*There are many switching yards and several industries at points in between.
*Wonderful scenery such as the Mississippi River, towering bluffs, natural limestone cliffs, a historic lift bridge, Lake Pepin (a large 2 mile wide x 20 mile long section of the River), old fashioned/turn-of-the century passenger depots, sailboats galore, and a lot more.
*Many twists, curves and S-bends
*There is a huge variety in both train traffic and locomotive paint schemes, including BNSF and Union Pacific run-through locomotives on coal trains, Iowa Chicago and Eastern freights, Amtrak Passenger trains, and lots of older SOO Line power. And this is all in addition to the regular CP traffic!
*Many passing sidings

These are some of my pictures of the line: (All of these pictures are definitely worth looking at, as they are some of my best photos ever!)

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=158591
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=153114
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=158723
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=141984
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=168071
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=140759
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=162095
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=164821
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=136842
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=127081
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=136842
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=164274
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=160080

[Guilford343]

CSX River Sub.
Runs along the Hudson River.. BEAUTIFUL route.

[edlight2]

Something with a variety of up and down grades, not just a long pull up or down.

[moose49]

sandpatch

[landnrailroader]

You can get SandPatch now as payware from MLT for MSTS. Their work is quite good. I have Cascade Crossing and it is a beauty.

Jerry Sullivan

[mikephfl]

>Something with a variety of up and down grades, not just a
>long pull up or down.


I couldn't agree more here. Many of the payware routes for msts are based on mountain passes or grades. To me, these are very boring. If you are going up the grade, put it in notch 8 and slowly wait for signals and crossings. Downgrade can be a bit more interactive as you have the possibility of a runaway. But, give me a route with undulating territory, multiple speed changes, lots of grade crossings, etc... and I'll be happy as a pig in ... well you get the idea.

Some of the routes I've enjoyed the most are:

SALFLA division, lots of faster running, undulating territory, small towns with speed restrictions.

Surfliner, again, lots of action, signals, grade crossings, small grades, junctions, etc..

M&M route
Fun route with lots of at speed running, some small hills, small towns with speed restrictions

Mike

[moose49]

Jerry
thanks I have it for MSTS. Just suggesting for the new sim also.

[Eric in UK]

As a UK resident, having spent many holidays in British Columbia over 25 years and more, I would wish for Canadian Pacific in British Columbia and also BC Rail before it became CN.

I live in hope ( not Hope BC ) and will be patient.

Eric in UK

[GrandTrunkFan]

Id like to see the GTW/Conrail Detroit Shoreline subdivision. Its a Detroit to Toledo double track main for GTW and a single track main for Conrail (I think) I saw this route on a GTW video I got from a library and since then, Ive been wanting it. It would include a Detroit Edison coal plant and the gynormously enormous Ford Motor Co. River Rouge plant! :D

[Butch38]

Hi Sabrina,

I would like to see


Northern Indiana Commuter Transportation District (NICTD)

Last North American Electric Interurban Railway

Which has a webpage with a history of the railroad.

www.nictd.com/index.htm

[EMD_GE]

Hi Subrina,First of all i think your gonna find that that most train simmers are gonna choose a route or region of a particular route that is familiar to them,refering to the area in which they live.Those who live on the West coast prefer the mountains,and desert terrain,those in Canada prefer mountains and dense forrest type atmosphere,and those who live on the East coast prefer more of the flat plain industrial type setting(like me).So i think your gonna find alot of diversity in opinion when it comes to route location and operation types.Considering this fact,it may be best to consider devolping routes for all the regions of the USA.That's my opinon...and i'm sticking to it.Thank you and have a nice day! ;-)

[imbubby]

Steven's Pass on the BNSF mainline through Washington state, USA.
It should include at least the trackage between Seattle and Wenachee,
in otherwords from the Pacific ocean to the mighty Columbia river over
the beautiful and rugged Cascade mountains, through one of the longest
and most ambitious railway tunnels in the world, Cascade tunnel.
Both Seattle and Wenachee are major terminal points.

It would be very nice to have it also include the Okanogan branch.
For add-ons, the lines from Wenachee to Spokane, and Spokane to Portland,
and from Portland up to Seattle could be made, completing the entire
triangle of BNSF heavy mainlines in Washington.

The line from Seattle to Canada could also be added on, for an
international connection and interest.

All of these BN lines are very interesting, and all carry heavy traffic,
but the Steven's Pass section would be my favorite. Steven's pass is
mountain railroading at it's most interesting, and beautiful country
with extremely variable weather which tends to the extremes in all
phases. Rain, snow, wind, and sunshine all carry their own interesting
challenges. And the grades are quite stiff along much of the line,
but the portion nearest Seattle is a flat-if-curvy raceway. And there
is a wide variety of big industry along the route, as well as a lot
of smaller industrys.

There also are major connections and interchanges with other
railroads.

Did I mention the beautiful mountains? ;)


I see that several other people have also mentioned this route as a
favorite of theirs. Marias has been done, many times and in many
ways, and most of the other major western mountain passes have gotten
good attention by third partys in MSTS. All were worthy subjects,
but Steven's Pass is equally worthy, and would make a very fun and
challenging route to play, and the only rout that has been done of it
was a very nice start, but never carried beyond the first revision and
thus lacks much detail.


So, yep. My vote is for Steven's Pass.

[landnrailroader]

Iwould second the nomination of Stevens Pass, and in fact somebody started on such a route some years back and it is still in the library as "Seattle--". I had it on my system at one time, but later removed it, though I still have it on backup. I think it got as far as the Cascade Tunnel.

Now, I would add my two-bits. Lets also include the old line through the Martin Creek loop tunnel and the old Cascade Tunnel, repleate with electric operation, and include electric operation through the new Cascade as well. This would back date the route to the late 1920s if the old route was used, or later if not.

The old route can be traced on aerials and topo maps - I have considered doing Skykomish to Wenatchee by both routes myself.

Jerry Sullivan
aka landnrailroader

[edlight3]

Stevens Pass looks great on google maps. I'd really like that one.

[TrainMan_112]

Personally, I'd like something thats not mountain. Sure, it's fun, but it gets old. I vote the BNSF Aurora Sub, but I'm not picky, as long as it's not steam.

[USRailFan]

Stevens Pass has been made - by Streamlines (www.streamlines.ca). They've abandoned all support for it, but even tho the activities are mostly unplayable the route and stock is of good quality.

[CRQ5508]

My favorite route? ooooh that's a tough one. i have a handful.

Ones that aren't in MSTS: the old Boston and Albany Line through Massachusetts, while in the Conrail era. My all time favorite route is Maine Central's Mountain Subdivision through Northern New Hampshire. Althouh now a tourist line, it was once one of the busiest lines in Northern New England.

I'd love to see that route donw, but I'm not holding my breath on it.

[landnrailroader]

Well, I will toss in my two bits on the issue. I prefer mountain roads, and I also like to preserve history via the virtual route. Therefore, any Milwaukee Road Subdivision west of Avery, ID would be great, or the NP between Pasco and SeaTac, or the SP&S between Spokane and Pasco.

Jerry Sullivan
(aka landnrailroader)

[RedDeath5]

Its the California Western Railroad.. hands down.. I have grew up with it.. I love the way the GP-9s revs up and the beautiful horn.. the history of the line.. the steam engine, it has such a deep and beauitufl chuff :)

[oakpalms]

What if KRS decided to throw in a route that would have both BNSF and UP tracks? They did a parallel trackage with Cajon Pass. Just north of Bakersfield there is an area where the UP tracks and BNSF tracks pretty much parallel each other right along the western slopes of the Sierra Nevada mountains. That would be a continuation of 3dtrainstuff's Tehachapi Loop route. It would provide scenery, two major railroad tracks and equipment which 3dtrainstuff has been providing already with MSTS. I would think Tehachapi will be converted to KRS in a short time along with Cajon Pass and Donner Pass. Who knows, they might just link Donner in with the southern routes sometime in the future.

Bob Edwards

[edlight3]

>Its the California Western Railroad.. hands down.. I have
>grew up with it.. I love the way the GP-9s revs up and the
>beautiful horn.. the history of the line.. the steam engine,
>it has such a deep and beauitufl chuff :)

I love it too, but I don't think it would be good operationally. Past that first stop all the way to Willits it's just one long grade, could get boring. I did a cab ride from Willits to that mid point stop and it was just go down on the dynamics, no variety. Sometimes the wheels on the engine would slip, and they'd have to put on the air temporarily to fix it.

[RedDeath5]

>>Its the California Western Railroad.. hands down.. I have
>>grew up with it.. I love the way the GP-9s revs up and the
>>beautiful horn.. the history of the line.. the steam engine,
>>it has such a deep and beauitufl chuff :)
>
>I love it too, but I don't think it would be good
>operationally. Past that first stop all the way to Willits
>it's just one long grade, could get boring. I did a cab ride
>from Willits to that mid point stop and it was just go down on
>the dynamics, no variety. Sometimes the wheels on the engine
>would slip, and they'd have to put on the air temporarily to
>fix it.
>
well.. this is the only train I have ever rode in my life time that I can remember.. I am going on it again very soon :) I am so excited :) I will take some pics and post them in the File Library.. I have already took some pics of the diesel and passenger cars.. run a search for "Skunk Train" :)

I still belive that I would enjoy it.. I mean.. it has such a great history, and I dont think the line has changed much in many many many years, so it could be ran as it is today.. or 20 years ago.. and probably a lot farther back.. the scenery would be another awsome part of it too.. it sounds like you rode in the cab of the diesel.. the steam runs an annuel trip all the way to willits with a diesel assitsing it... now, for an activity.. what if that diesel happend to fail? a small steam engine with a long train down a steep grade on its own power? Sounds fun :) you could be a hero lol.. dont kill the passengers :P

[RedDeath5]

I think I rode the North Coast Daylight (from willits to eureka or so) when I was a baby.. I am 18 now :P and have applyed for a job at the skunk and havnt heard from them.. I am going to go in soon and talk to my friend and try to get her to introduce me to the supervisor :)

[Daniel G]

Hi Sabrina, I would have to say the Western & Atlantic, and Etowah/K&A subs between Knoxville, TN & Atlanta, GA would be an awesome choice. There are 50 to 60 trains daily consiting of: 8 to 10 daily 90 to 120 car coal trains for 2 of the biggest Power Plants in the world, the famous Tropicana Juice train, many autorack trains from Nashville, TN, and Chattanooga, TN, to Atlanta,GA, not to mention dozens of manifest and extra freights plying the line. Also who could forget the famous Great Locomotive Chase of the Civil War between Kennesaw and Ringgold, GA? There is the gigantic Tilford yard in Atlanta, the very busy Junita Juction/Yard in Cartersville, Ga, and numerous interchanges with Norfolk Southern, and shortlines. There are various different industries along the line, and tons of locals switch along the way. There are Helper Grades in the rugged North Georgia mountains, busy downtown areas at either end, and tons of beautiful scenery.

[landnrailroader]

Check my progress reports on the Route Design Forum. I am working on one of the more significant parts of the K&A, from roughly mile C-324 to C-362, i.e. Inglewood to just below the Georgia LIne. The focus however will be on the Hiwassee line as far as just beyond CopperHill. Etowah yard is being done as best as I can.
Perhaps someone will grab this and add to it as there will not be so many signals etc. that one could not simply delete them and not have to worry about interactive object problems on rebuilds etc.

Jerry Sullivan
aka landnrailroader

[Daniel G]

Sweet, I've been following your progress for a while. I live near MP 417 along the K&A.

[edlight3]

RedDeath5:

Best of luck on your job application. What a great place to work.

[geode]

I'd vote early and often, and beg, borrow, and steal money for the complete D&RGW narrow gauge circle in the 40's & 50's. Is it time to vote yet?
George

[F40Phill1117]

My favorite route is Amtrak's NEC it has several commuter lines on it with both diesels and electric engines.

[miketsims]

It would have to be from Denver, Co. through Moffat Tunnel to Glacier Park. It's beautiful in the mountains.

[landnrailroader]

I would agree, having rode over that line on the CZ once in both directions, but should that not read "Winter Park" rather than "Glacier Park". I have been past the latter on the EPB once, but it seems to me that it is several hundred miles to the north?

Jerry

[Archer01]

A few That come to mind.

1. UP's transcon
2. Colorado's Joint Line perfered Pre UP/BNSF ownership.
3. Orin Line to inclued the Towns of Gillette, the Campbell Sub and associated mines, Donkey Creek, and associated staging yards on the north end, south to inclued the junctions at Orin, and Shawnee.
4. Camas Prairie
4. CNW Cowboy Line
5. MRL
6. SP's Tucumcari Sub
7. All the Trackage that comprises the Texas Chemical Coast, to inclued the Golden Triangle, Near South Shore, and Far South Shore areas.

And for Narrow Gauge.
Colorado Midland would be interesting.

[atsf37l]

Colorado Midland was standard gauge.

For Narrow Gauge, the Rio Grande Southern would be interesting! ;)

[dustystix]

A few That come to mind.

1. UP's transcon
2. Colorado's Joint Line perfered Pre UP/BNSF ownership.
3. Orin Line to inclued the Towns of Gillette, the Campbell Sub and associated mines, Donkey Creek, and associated staging yards on the north end, south to inclued the junctions at Orin, and Shawnee.
4. Camas Prairie
4. CNW Cowboy Line
5. MRL
6. SP's Tucumcari Sub
7. All the Trackage that comprises the Texas Chemical Coast, to inclued the Golden Triangle, Near South Shore, and Far South Shore areas.

And for Narrow Gauge.
Colorado Midland would be interesting.

and you can't forget the Black Hills sub that runs from Donkey Creek Yards to Crawford NE, runs thru Moorcroft, Upton, Osage, Newcastle, Edgemont, and on to Crawford..many railfan opportunities.

[grizzledbiker1]

Nickel Plate Road!

[seaboardairline]

Seems this topic was over on the MSTS board, how'd it get here? Program glitch?

[signalman_stu]

The Moffat Road. Possibly Tennesse Pass too. Both in DRGW days, obviously :)

[eerbaugh]

Grew up in Indiana and one of the few routes that features the entire railroad. I hope it makes an appearance on RS or MSTSX.

[jbarb]

I would love to see a route made of the NS Danville District (Lynchburg Va to Linwood, NC). The Amtrak Crescent runs this track also. If I had the expertise and time right now, I would at least include the trackage from Hurt, Va, to Greensboro, NC.

John
Danville, Va.

[geejay]

My pick would be NE Corridor, at least NY to DC. Western mountain routes may be a challenge, but we have one already. Another good eastern route would be Allentown to Harrisburg (Enola). Or even Harrisburg to Pittsburg.

[OTTODAD]

My pick would be NE Corridor, at least NY to DC. Western mountain routes may be a challenge, but we have one already. Another good eastern route would be Allentown to Harrisburg (Enola). Or even Harrisburg to Pittsburg.

While I was waiting to get anywhere downloading the Just Trains US-Cajon Expansion pack, I installed the final version of the PRR, I had a hand in fixing, it's DVD arriving today.

Now that is one route I would like to see in RS or better still in MS-TRAINS-2, now that it is possible to have electrified and other tracks in the same route.

Anybody fancy having a go in RS ? ;)

O t t o

http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/attachment.php?attachmentid=2035&stc=1&d=1204579854

[Railcoyote]

Well After reading 14 pages of comments for North American routes, I am going to throw a couple of Routes that were never even considered yet are part of larger Routes (I feel a 100-150 mile (160-241km) route is better to be created than something hudreds if not thousands of miles/kilometers long.

But I will say that American has some of the best "Mountain" Railroading lines. (and some of them are not all steep.

But if it were my choice here's the ones I would pick and why:

Donner Pass/Emigrant Gap (SP/UP Sacremento CA-Reno NV): Let's face it, Donner Pass (which is a lot of times called "The D-Route")is infact one excellent route and has some good old fashion style Railroading (Complete with Snowsheds, Tunnels, and even sidings that hold Helper units, Donner Pass is only 3rd in terms of popularity behind Cajon and Tehachapi. And if KRS Ever gave Americans the "Snow Tracks", well during Winter, a lot of sudden (and in some cases, Severe weather). Pops up on the route (Break out the Diesel Powered Rotary Plows. But considering this to be part of the Trans-continental Route, plus the fact that its' Now SP/UP Run, this would be a good addon for the SP/UP Fans...

Tehachapi (BNSF/UP/SP, Bakersfield - Mojave CA): Now this line is only 2nd behind Cajon Pass when it comes to motive power and considering that Bakersfield is the "Northern Gate to move Trains to Los Angeles, Tehachapi has a nice mix of route. Between the tunnels, sidings, and the famous "Loop" Tehachapi has perhaps the best single track line with sidings so you can develop activites for.

San Gorgornio Pass (UP/SP, Colton CA- Indio CA): Now when you hear the words, "San Gorgornio Pass", a lot of folks scratch their heads and go.. "HUH?" but San Gorgornio is a "Low Route" pass that connects the Los Angeles Basin with the Eastern Colorado River area (And since this pass hardly gets snow in it (Unlike Cajon does from time to time, San Gorgornio Pass usually has traffic on it. sometimes you can go from Indio to Colton, and run into 5-10 trains running on the trace at the same time. Add to the fact that on the south side you got the Towering Mt. San Jacinto (The Third Tallest Mountain in California, and on the north side, you have Mt San Gorgonio (The 2nd highest mountain in California). Running from Colton - Indio California, seems the right thing to do (After reaching Beaumont CA, The line changes from California Valley to Desert, and this in just about 20 miles. But this one is perhaps one of the better California routes for "Rookie Engineers.

The Lordsburg subdivision (aka 'The Stormy') (UP/SP, Tucson AZ- Lordsburg NM). Now as farmers Point out, all you have to do is 'wait five minutes and the weather will change'. But for this route the saying should say 'Wait five miles and the weather will change'.

In short, 'The Stormy' has it all, A double track line that 20 miles east of Tucson, crosses over itself at La Cienega Creek (Track 2 having a bridge while Track 1 runs underneath, A couple Horseshoe style curves east of Benson, Arizona, plus enough weather changes where you can go from Sunny and clear, to rainy/Thunderstorms (during the summer), to snow (In the winter seasons), and back again. All in all the weather is the factor here..but the track does have a bit of fun. and considering that Lordsburg is near the summit of the Sothern Continental Dvivide this gives railroaders a bit of a challenge .

Finally for all of our Canadia Friends, how about

Kicking Horse Pass(Central Pacific Lake Louise AB-Fields BC):Next to Tehachapi, Kicking Horse Pass gives Tehachapi a run for it's money considering that the 2.2% gradient has not just 1 but 2 tunnel spirals turning both clockwise and counter clockwise. Kicking Horse is perhaps the only route to sport 2 spirals in the distance of a few miles and in fact it's a real challenge to hold the Trains on grade with just brakes..(Dynamic Braking is a must. (But with all the twists and turns, Kicking Horse Pass is probably best for the expert, and it give folks quite a challenge.

But I feel that here are 4 routes that should be done. They need to be built and there should be some good activities for each one.

Just my 30 cents worth..

Railcoyote--

[Hyce]

Tehachapi or Moffat. Or Cheyenne-Laramie.

[richb]

This whole discussion was started in July, 2007, had Rail Simulator been around that long????
My suggestion for best NA route anything in Canada and the Vera Cruz-Mexico, DF route.

[signalman_stu]

Now that some folks have figured out how to produce narrow gauge track, how about the Marshall Pass?

[obo]

I'd go for something urban and industrial, with lots of scope for both passenger and freight operations. It could start in somewhere like Chicago or Philadelphia and extend out far enough to encompass one of the main commuter lines as well as allowing for significant freight movements.

I realize urban routes are far more time-consuming per mile of rail to produce than mountain or desert routes (which is the main reason we have so few of them in MSTS) but a well-done urban route would be an instant classic.

Ok, if I could have any route? New York to Albany, with both sides of the Hudson included. A beautiful and interesting line with a great mix of traffic, regardless of era. Note that a modern version could "cheat" on much of New York since the western approach to Penn Station is almost entirely underground.

Regards,

Rob.