Need help, because 1 specific Worldfile makes Freeware Cajon crash in RE!!!!

[duiker]

I am already busy for a while to edit the freeware Cajon route. It worked all fine untill I started to change something in a specific worldfile. I let the tracklayout like it was (and also the roads and signs). I only made some changes to the terrain, put some extra objects in it with 1 platform marker, and raised the tracks and roads to the newer a little bit higher levell of the terrain. When I saved everything, it worked fine first, but when I rebuild the trackdatabase, it immediately crashed!!! Before that it crashed much later on the specific worldfile, and that was also the file I made the last changes on!!!

So something must be wrong with that worldfile and tile.Maybe there is a corrupt shape in it, or an interactive object that doesn't work proper. I searched a lot on it, but I cannot find the problem in that tile. Maybe somebody can find out what cause the problem on the Worldfile and Tile. The problems occur on the Worlfile w-12822+014000.w and the Tile -024992ec.t.

I hope somebody can dig deeper in this, and help me to solve the problem.

VINCENT

[BNLover]

You made one big mistake by trying to rebuild the track database. You should NEVER rebuild the track database with interactive objects on it, and two, you shouldn't have added the platform maker or touched those tracks. That screwed it up too. The only solution in this mess is to restore a backup and start again (hoping that you made backups, of course).

[duiker]

>You made one big mistake by trying to rebuild the track
>database. You should NEVER rebuild the track database with
>interactive objects on it, and two, you shouldn't have added
>the platform maker or touched those tracks. That screwed it up
>too. The only solution in this mess is to restore a backup and
>start again (hoping that you made backups, of course).

That is not the problem, because I edited already a lot of routes WITH interactive objects and with placing of platform markers!!!! And they never gave a problem when I rebuild the Trackdatabase. When that was the problem, you never can make a route, because you always have to rebuild the Trackbase many times (otherwise every change you make to a route layout during building, is not visible after saving and reopening the route in the RE!!!) And in the rest of the route, the editting and rebuilding worked fine except that tile. And as I told, beside 1 new Platformarker, I didn't change anything in the route's Track layout or roads, signs, etc.

Also before editting the route, the route crashed during rebuild TDB on that already mentioned worldfile and tile. So there must be something wrong on that specific tile.

VINCENT

[BNLover]

OK, sure, you've gotten lucky before, but now your luck has ended. First of all, you only need to rebuild the track database when there is a corruption of the database. Otherwise, you do not need to rebuild it. Trust me, I have been in business of building/editing routes for 3 years. I know. Search the forums if you're in doubt.

[duiker]

Trust me, I am also in business for more than 3 years with editting and building routes!!! You need to rebuild the TDB time by time when you are building a route or make changes to it, otherwise the tracks and changes are not visisble in the Activity Editor, and you cannot test your (edited) route!!!! When you know an other solution to make the tracks visible in the Activity Editor for a newly build route or an edited route without rebuilding the TDB, please let me know???!!!!

But as I told before, the problem is not the rebuilding of the TDB itself, but a corrupt worldfile + tile. I cannot find the file that cause the problem, so maybe somebody can help me with that???

VINCENT

[BNLover]

I simply don't rebuild the database.

[duiker]

>I simply don't rebuild the database.

Let me have a big laugh!!!! Than it is simply impossible to test your newly build route in the explore mode of your MSTS installation. Because you need to do rebuild TDB, otherwise your route layout is not visible in the AE. And when your route is not visible in the AE, you cannot make a path to drive your route. The AE cannot recognize the tracks by only saving it in the RE!!!!

But this discussion goes nowhere!!!! It is not the problem I am asking for help for!!!! So I hope somebody who really knows something about the problem can help, because for the last time: REBUILDING TDB IS NOT THE PROBLEM ITSELF!!! The problem is in the worldfile + tile.

VINCENT

[tomkat41]

Hi Vincent

Goto the tile in RE and check if there's a blue pole on the road or
on the track. The same thing happpened to me and it was a blue pole
on road piece. I just got rid of the road and started over.

[BNLover]

Oh but yes it can, its just that you're just not listening to me. I have never encountered something like that, on any route I've done. I've only rebuilt the TDB of my most recent route once, and that was because of a corrupted TDB. I was able to make a path the first day I laid tracks, so what you're saying is simply not true. You yourself have made this into more of a hassle by editing tracks on a route with interactive objects already in place. And, apparently, you haven't searched the forums yet either, because a simple search would've turned up the fact that I am correct.

[duiker]

OK, Thank you Tomkat.That is the type of help I was searching for instead of that nonsense posted above here. But I just checked the whole tile now, but all road- and railpieces look very well connected (so no blue poles). The problem is not in that. Maybe some more people with suggestions???

VINCENT

P.S. BNLover, Also with a fresh install of the route, the rebuilding TDB crash on that specific tile. So it doesn't matter if I edit the route or not!!! But when you do not want to add constructive help in this discussion, please leave this discussion, and DO NOT spoil it!!!!

[sniper297]

I'm completely lost here. I edit track constantly, never rebuild the TDB, and the track shows up fine in the activity editor.

My experience with rebuilding the TDB has been the same as anyone else's - once you add ANY interactive object, your TDB rebuilding days are over and done with. For one thing, it unlinks all the signals and screws up anything else on the track, and there's no saving it after that.

So I, who have been building routes for over five years, am gonna add more "nonsense" - restore from a backup, start over, and don't run the TDB rebuild on it. The TDB rebuild is buggy itself, and shouldn't be used except when you have an RE crash that causes an out of synch condition with no other way to restore it. TDB rebuild should NEVER be used after you start placing signals.

[Hawk]

I'm with Sniper and BNLover here. If you have to do a TDB rebuild just to get changes done in RE to show up then you are doing something wrong.
Just a little more nonsense for ya'. :-)

BTW! I've been working on routes in RE since shortly after MSTS was released in 2001.

[robertreedy]

One more to add. I did a tdb rebuild on my first route once in order to add XTracks to it after it had already been started and had the priviledge of relinking or deleting and replacing almost every interactive item on the route. Never have done it since.

One item though. I haven't gone through have the route you are referring to in the RE, but I do know a couple of other routes (including mine) that run fine, but do have an issue in one of the world files that will throw it completely out the window if edited. That is probably what is happening here. Just a hunch.

RobertR
ADF-M&RM at http://www.adfrr.com
Cascade & North Western at http://www.vcnwrr.com/

[landnrailroader]

Well, I just signed on at the BN ProBoard etc.

I will second these commnents. It is not necessary to rebuild a TDB to be able to create a AE, otherwise, how would one create AE's during the course of building a route in order to test it.

I have usually had to rebuild a TBD (and RDB) once or twice, but I only did so when there was corruption. (orphan blue pole, things like that). However, I have encountered the problem this originally started with, and usually, RouteRiter is able to analyze the world files and come up with something. HOwever, I have never attempted to alter the tracks or roads of any FreeWare route I have got, the risks are not worth the effort.

Jerry Sullivan
aka landnrailroader

[grundge69]

I normally just lurk around the forums, with an occasional post, but I felt the need to say something here. BNlover was only trying to help, and for whatever reason his comments were taken quite personally. This could of easily turned into a nasty flame war, but BNlover had the good taste to be civil. Credit was not given for his helpful ideas, instead, being blasted as an idiot who doesnt know what he is talking about. Well, it turns out he did know what he was talking about. Please dont post a request for help and then be critical of the advice given. When I ask for help, and somebody doesnt give the answer I'm looking for, I just ignore it. For my 2 cents, rebuilding a TDB is a huge sin. I found that out the hard way when my SLSF tracks ended up turning 110° on a UP diamond. You could use the lack of a TDB to your advantage too. I have always had my routes up to date after a save in AE, and last night was no different.

[chazlee1]

I will make a reply here also, seeing as how I have been here for many moons now, especially when someone is dissing someone for help that should be common knowledge.

If, indeed, you have made TDB rebuilds with interactives in place and not lost anything afterwards, thank your lucky stars the MSTS god has looked favorably on you. As Sniper said, a TDB rebuild with interactives included will, most always, delink everything installed on the entire route and usually cremate the route completely; you would have to go and link everything interactive back up again (i.e. signals, switches, platforms, and such).

Don't ask for help here if you do not have an open mind to all suggestions, whether it's something you have tried or not. Also, do a search for threads on the problem at hand. Had you done that, I believe you would have had a 99.9 percent consensus on NOT doing a TDB rebuild after interactives are laid. BNSFlover was trying to get that across to you, and didn't deserve what you dished out to him.

This, among other reasons, is why people won't help others out with their knowledge. 'nuff said.
Chaz

[ATSF]

I have built 5 routes over the last 5 years. You can not do a TDB rebuild after interactive objects have been placed.
It could be he is not deleting the TDB RDB TIT RIT Files and their backups as well as the World File backups before doing the rebuild. If this is the case, he is not really doing a TDB rebuild, just thinks he is.

[Swissie]

Hi Vincent

having to agree with Sniper and the others here: Track database rebuilds are just a means of last resort trying to save a corrupted route.

Such a corruption could be the result of messing with a section of track to which interactive objects were still referenced. This is why it is a mandatory to remove all interactives from a section of track (i.e. from all sections of track extending from one track node/red pole to every adjacent track node/red pole) you are working on.

If you follow this essential rule while building a new route or updating an exiting one, and all goes well, then there is no need to run a .tdb rebuild. The track database should update correctly with each save, provided you do always follow the "no interactives present" rule on sections of track you are working on.

Just frequently save your changes and make at least one back-up a day in case you mess up something. I have released two routes so-far (MountE, Downtown), I have customised about a dozen or more freeware and payware routes on my computer, and I have merged adjacent routes on three occasions. Any change I made was immediately and correctly visible in the AE, or the sim. In all these years and projects, I had to run a .tdb rebuild exactly once - in one of the cases of merging two routes as I had corrupted some dynamic track entries inadvertedly - and I made 100% sure that I removed every single interactive object before running the rebuild. The consensus of the experts is that .tdb rebuilds with interactive objects present are a sure ticket to corrupt a route, due to alterations of track node ID numbers a .tdb rebuild makes. Which - as a wild shot - maybe is exactly why you are having problem seeing changes unless another rebuild is run?

Lukas a.k.a Swissie