Conrail Indy

[opeth82]

I have ran the mainline section and it looks "alright". My questions for the route designers are these:

1. Where is Hawthorne?
2. Where are all the industries by CP Hunt in Indy?
3. Why doesn't the DC have indoor tracks?
4. Where is the Belt?
5. Why isn't the Louisville Secondary longer?
6. Why does Avon Yard only have 8 tracks each?
7. Where is the Shelbyville and Hill Yard to interchange with the I&O?

For anyone who downloads this route, understand that you are getting cheated for the potential to run local industrial jobs that stay within the city themselves. Also the Petersburg line really needs revamping as well. Hopefully the next version is better. I might even do it myself and make it worthwhile. I don't mean to sound overly critical but it seems like this route could be done a lot better justice.

[bob hahn]

Horse. Gift. Mouth.

[cbq311]

Sounds like he got himself a project.

[Claude350]

>I have ran the mainline section and it looks
>"alright". My questions for the route designers are
>these:
>
>1. Where is Hawthorne?
>2. Where are all the industries by CP Hunt in Indy?
>3. Why doesn't the DC have indoor tracks?
>4. Where is the Belt?
>5. Why isn't the Louisville Secondary longer?
>6. Why does Avon Yard only have 8 tracks each?
>7. Where is the Shelbyville and Hill Yard to interchange with
>the I&O?
>
>For anyone who downloads this route, understand that you are
>getting cheated for the potential to run local industrial jobs
>that stay within the city themselves. Also the Petersburg line
>really needs revamping as well. Hopefully the next version is
>better. I might even do it myself and make it worthwhile. I
>don't mean to sound overly critical but it seems like this
>route could be done a lot better justice.


Looks like it's time for you to get busy upgrading the route. We'll be waiting and don't take all year to complete this task. Those local industrial switching jobs are waiting on us. It's all about the revenue. Get busy, busy, busy :).

[CRQ5508]

I'm gonna tell you what I tell everyone else. Unless you can come up with something better, don't trash someone elses work. Until you create something better, you have no right to trash someone elses work.

[NSFAN]

Damn man, you must be one hard person to please. I think the Conrail Indy route is one fine piece of art work. It is one of the best freeware routes available. So what if everything wasn't included, it is still a magnificant route in my opinion. And I do think most others would agree with that as well.

[opeth82]

Do it right the first time. Most rail lines are not that obscure and the documentation is usually available.
In fact, I am rounding up official Conrail documents to work on this project. One of the "perks" of being a professional historian with ties to other professional historians. Also being professional railroader with official ties that even make me shudder.
I understand all the limitations and I also understand not everybody has money for better computers. Too bad for them, I do. If you can't "game" to the full extent to run something that is realistic, then maybe you should sit and play something a little less intensive. This simulation isn't for you.
I spend the good money so when I run trains, it looks like I do in real life.
Beyond all that I am saying it would have taken a little more time to add the trackage where the present Crawfordsville line already runs on the "Simulation". The trackage was just simply omitted. I was just curious as to why. I asked the question and nobody seemed to answer except the people who don't have the foggiest clue what I am even talking about. The Belt and the surrounding locales were and still are an integral part of the city's rail infrastructure and meaning.
If you or anyone else don't like it... I can't help you much more beyond that. I am working on other projects related to that so it can eventually be released. Custom objects and the like. I'm not going to be hypocritical and release something that is half assed. It will be done in my style. I didn't state the timeline involved. When people get pissed, they will be more than happy with the results.
I'm looking forward to the E&N route that is being released by Streamlines. I don't care if it takes 3 more years, as long as it looks just as good or better then it does in the screenshots. That is what you call realism. Streamlines Seligman, Streamlines Scenic. Those are routes where people actually took the time. I'd spend more if they charged it. So save the flames for your smokes.

[pstraten]

"One of the "perks" of being a professional historian with ties to other professional historians. Also being professional railroader with official ties that even make me shudder.
I understand all the limitations and I also understand not everybody has money for better computers. Too bad for them, I do. If you can't "game" to the full extent to run something that is realistic, then maybe you should sit and play something a little less intensive. This simulation isn't for you."

Ummm. A little harsh don't you think? I'm a retired lecturer in Medieval and Renaissance Literature at a major midwestern university. Doesn't make me an expert at trainsim, or creating routes. Well, maybe you're truly a renaissance man. At any rate, I for one am looking forward to your work.



PaulS

http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/up1/67488.gif

[Richard]

Kenny,
Did you read the attached route readme file? There was only one route designer, why did you not email him and ask these question? Another point, the route is freeware, if you don't like it delete it. I did a search of the file library and guess what, I could not find your name as the author of anything in the file library. Let's see how critical you are after you've been working with the Route Editor two years from now. I also see from your above post you want tracks inside buildings, better start learning a good 3D Modeling software program. A lot of the structures you see on the Conrail Indy route were created by the route author, if you plan on using any of these better get his permission while you're at it. Oh and have a nice day.

Rich S.

[opeth82]

You know what. I had a thought. I actually took the time to think about this post. Even ran it by the old lady.
Why not build routes and name them something. Here is the catch... Y'all will like this one. The catch is... We build routes that have names of specific places but they don't actually represent the trackage. Then when people point out the flaws... We talk #### to them and then treat them like total #### because they bring it up to the attention of other people.
Fact is... You are right. I don't have #### in the library. I don't choose to upload #### to the library. I cannot upload stuff from payware routes. By far I give credit to only a few people that work on routes. Bob Wirth is the #1. Patrick Wise is the #2. Rich.... well you were #3. But since you took this and ran with it. You can just go somewhere.... I expected more out of a person who actually builds routes to be able to say hey... maybe he's right. Maybe the delivery was wrong, but hey... he is right and maybe someone could actually do something about it. I can see why you would get offended though. Your route uses the custom Bruce items. You have to throw down for your boy. I'm done with this post. Frankly... after I brought this up and people treated me like ####... I'm just going to pay attention the important stuff that can actually help me. Take care, and you have yourself a nice day as well. It's nice to know that prototypical standards mean nothing.

[fmfboy]

You do have a point but the thing is people have limitations on building routes....Sure he might have gotten it all right in the beginning but then towards the end of making a route you get burnt out and just wanna finish it up...I'd love to see routes that have the full monty the whole 9 yards the kitten kaboodle you catch my drift...But people when they make routes I'm sure people just put presure on the route makers and the only way to get the route out is just to skip a few lil things and call it quits....Take this UP Kenosha Sub route that is being made for instance...I know that route like the back of my head....Sure hes missing some things on it but I am not complaining...He's doing one hell of a nice job catching the mainline and some of the industries....Every day I come on here to see how that route is going...I love seeing the prograss pictures of that route and my uncle that lives down there loves seeing his work...Hell he can't wait either for this route to come out..And its of his own town and hell he lives right down the road from them tracks....Point being on where all this is going is that like some of us said and you said...Routes take time and so what if he missed a lil detail here and there....Hell...Your lucky he even did that route....I love it....I run on it all the time....I followed that line from street to street and to me its right on...Along with the Clinton Sub....So I prolly speak for a lot of people in here...Please don't mock other peoples work...They do there best on trying to give us something to run and I appreciate them doing it.........And thats all I have to say......About that ;)

[Richard]

Kenny,
That is the whole problem, the delivery was completely wrong! You need to take it down a notch. What you could have said was:

"Being familiar with the Conrail Indianapolis line I've noticed a few things missing like ..." "I'm planning on doing the line to include these missing items"

Instead you made the route sound like trash because it's missing a few items you deem important, but most people did not even know were missing. And for your last comment, you need to show me the way!

[opeth82]

I'm going to simply apologize. I let personal reasons be the reasons I wrote the message. I realized that I was wrong and I am sorry that I offended people and then made an ass of myself in the process. I don't want anyone that contributes the time to be sorry for doing so. Bruce did a great job and I realize it was myself that didn't do such a good one. Hoping for something better when it was already a splendid thing. I commend the people that take the time. Personal reasons to create something for their own and give it away for free. I'll keep those things to myself and hopefully offer suggestions for what I know and hopefully others will take it as a kind suggestion. Again, I am sorry. Richard, I am sorry for what I said to you.

[fmfboy]

Now thats a lot better....Now don't you feel good now ;)

[opeth82]

I still feel bad, but not for that reason. Haven't been able to see my kids for a while. Started immersing myself in train sim a lot of more and that is kinda why I started venting like that.

[Richard]

Hello Kenny,
Everybody looses their cool every once in awhile, especially when their are personal problems at home, thank you for the apology. Even though you did not go into detail about the problems in your post, they are personal matters and I respect that. I also understand what a toll they can take on your life, I'm speaking from the voice of experience. Train sim is a nice diversion to help you forget about problems for awhile. I truly hope everything works out for you, although sometimes it does not seem like it, there is always light at the end of the tunnel.

Take care,
Rich S.

[oakpalms]

I think many of us have found that the real way to communicate questions about someone's work is to send a personal email to the person who did the work instead of making a national issue out of it on the forum. I think one can question payware more than freeware since we have put out money for such.

When I installed Conrail Indy I was expecting more detailed track for the Indy area. Being from central Indiana and having spent a lot of time in Indy I was hoping for more, but I accepted what I got as pretty special. Some who have developed routes continue to work to improve them...sometimes patience is a good virtue. Most improved versions have not added track as that causes most activities to fail.
Some improvements have added track and one can always ask for the builder to include more track should a future improvement be made.

I am glad to see that apologies were made and hopefully Bruce does not feel so hurt that he will stop trainsim. A few years ago some unkind words were made concerning the work of one of the most productive track builders...the words of that one individual nearly cost all of us some very precious routes.

Bob EDwards