Otto's Default.wag

[Busdriver]

I have a question about Otto's default.wag file suggested for use with the coupler settings that work best with BIN.

I notice that there is a timestep change for the Off track time solver.

I have always been afraid to change anything having to do with the time steps. The reason has been that it alters the timing of how activities run. I kind of remember a time several years ago when I was testing activities for someone, and the results I would get would be very different from the results everyone else was getting for timing. As it turns out, I had a default.wag that I had updated from somewhere that had different timestep settings.

Is it safe to change that parameter?

I would hate to see a whole bunch of different default.wag files around causing activity incompatability as we grow the BIN movement.

Thoughts?

Bryce

[westerngy]

Bryce thats been one of my pet pieves for along time now.Bob (Plainsman) went to alot of trouble and so has Otto and others working behind the scenes with regards to have more accurate physics in the eng and wag files but people are so lazy that they don't even take the time after doing a photoreskin or paint of an eng or rolling stock to do a complete job right down to a STANDARD physics.
My 2 cents worth.

Just Rollin Down The Tracks

http://www.notch-8.com/
http://www.railroadradio.net
http://www.RFCHosting.com/

[Turbo Bill]

I agree... I'm right now doing the C&NW fleet upgrade to new couplers, new brake system parameters and a host of other things. But first I had to fix errors that have gotten by a lot of people. Things like intertiatensor numbers not matching the size values and bounding boxes that are bigger the the cars. Well at least now our fleet will be just like the real deal. Many of the guys are now buring their noses in my Train handling and brake management articles I wrote a while back.

[OTTODAD]

Hi Bryce !

My version of the Default.wag changes only these 3 lines:

"2cm # Minimum couple distance"
"0.6 # Coefficient of restitution for car/car collisions"

"0.3 # min coupling velocity"

Don't know what you mean by: "I notice that there is a timestep change for the Off track time solver." ?

O t t o

[Busdriver]

I guess my issue is not with all of the issues that can go on with individual cars and engines.....that has been an issue forever. My concern is with changes being made and then being proliferated in the default.wag file that affects all cars and engines. This could mess with activity timing much more seriously that individual car changes would. Especially in the Timesolver area from what I heard before.

Bryce

[Busdriver]

Otto,

Maybe I am wrong since I have been downloading many things to look at, but, when I got a file called mstsbin-161-couplers.zip which I thought was from a thread you did, it has a default.wag file that is different from the one that comes with MSTS.

The lines I am referring to look like this in the original default.wag:

"0 # On-track solver: 0=euler 1=rungekutta"
"10ms # On-track solver timestep"
"1 # Off-track solver"
"30ms # Off-track timestep"
"0 # Reposition colliding objects: 0=no 1=yes"

I notice that yours does not look like this.

This makes me think that you have at some point in the past updated your default.wag, and now those changes are now part of your most recent update.

I think the changes in the timestep area came from a discussion and testing many months/years ago where the front coupler and other things were being looked at before the BIN idea. I forget who did a new default.wag.

My concern is that the timestep lines caused serious differences in timing of the sim on the same activities. I had these issues, and went back to the default timestep settings.

I hope this makes sense, and I am not trying to shoot at anyone's work. I just want to be sure changes don't start proliferating that cause the sim to behave differently between folks. Especially in the area of activities since they are so widely shared and such a huge part of the sim experience.

I would appreciate any new thinking that may exist regarding the timestep issue and the changes that have been made from the 2001 version.

Bryce

[drjoe]

Changes in the timestep settings ( and the "method" ) have more to do with your computer setup than with other things. On my system, I have both set to 10ms. This seems to keep the "clock" in activities more aligned with the F10 display for passenger operations. But, every computer may vary. I have had no problems with any activities with mine set different from the original MSTS settings. Others have had problems with their computers when changing them.

[OTTODAD]

Hi Bryce !

I think you may be referring to this download:
www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/downloads/mstsbin-161-couplers.zip

which contains examples of my *.eng & *.wag files coupler settings, including my Default.wag, which got Bill fired up into improving them to be more realistic and "virtual" ! ;-)

http://www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/downloads/mstsbin-161-couplers.jpg

Apart from the 3 lines I changed in my Default.wag the other lines are identical to the 2001 default version !

O t t o

[Busdriver]

Otto,

Yep, that is where I got it, but the lines are not the same. The ones in your file have been changed from the ones that are in the 5/2001 default version. Take another look. You have more than 3 lines that are different from the original.

I have attached the 2001 version for your reference.

However, according to Joe, it probably shouldn't matter, but I think I do not want to change my time solver numbers since it did seem to change things.

Then, the question is whether or not you and Bill want to be changing them and sending them out.

Thanks for all of the effort you have put into this.

Bryce

[baldwin]

Bryce

Having just looked at an original default.wag, the 10ms Ontrack is correct and deals with the timings of trains. The Offtrack timestep is used to update the scenery and time around you. With both set at 10ms the whole sim is more in synch. Only by changing the Ontrack figure would you run into problems with activities made and run on different machines.

The downside to altering the Offtrack figure is an increase in processor timeslice usage in solving the equations. This can result in a decrease in overall frame rate figures.

Beer is not a matter of life and death. It is much more serious than that.
mervyn.

[Turbo Bill]

I have used Otto's DEAFULT wag file as it came in his MP3kcons zip file. THis DEFAULT IIRC only has the three coupling related lines altered. I have no problem distributing this DEFAULT file with my work as my work uses this specific version as a platform for the couplers attributes and coupling/uncoupling performance. His DEFAULt file has been tested extensively and will see another round of testing with over 170 activities that the C&NW has with over 300 pieces of rollingstock. The testing is intense and covers all types of railroading operations. An eye toward prototypiical performance is indeed part of this testing. Hes DEFAULT file has been on my comp since he released it and offered it to me for inclusion in my work. It has performed flawlessly in every coupling and uncoupling situation. If something did go awry, it was always a value or values somewhere else in the wag/eng or ,sd file. Joe and Otto have been invaluable to me in aiding me with this massive fleet restructure project. The end result is mindblowing with a total fleet that is so close to RW traits that RW train handling techniques are actually required with the Pro version and cloae to RW trainhandlling techniques required with the novice version.

Their contribution and tutalage are such an important foundation for my work that their names are included in comment on every single eng/wag file we have as well as inclusion in the official readme that accompanies every zip file that contains their effoert.

They know what they are doing in this area. Why? Because i have been working hours per day with items containing their theories and concepts that are the foundation for my concepts and theories. The final C&NW package could not be possible without their assistance and I'm endebted to them for their willingness to share their work and enhance the MSTS experiance for all.

[OTTODAD]

Hi Bryce !

I see what you mean, missed that ! This "off-track timestep" line was altered by George or Matt Peddlesden of UK-TS, I passed on with their other three changes, some of which I modified.

My coupler settings and Default.wag have proved to be flawless if you do not mind Rigid Automatic couplers with all your rolling stock ! ;-)

O t t o

http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/up1/114009.jpg

[Turbo Bill]

Otto, if there are values altered other then e=waht you initially intended, can you post or email me a corrected DEFAULT wag file? Our members are also members of other vr's especailly one that has over 900 published activites. I want to make sure our updated files will work everywhere without issue. Our fleet is both Bin and non Bin compliant so I want to make sure the DEFAULT file will work elsewhere as well.

[Busdriver]

Interesting stuff here. I may go ahead and try changing the off track solver and time step numbers. Maybe before, I had changed the on track numbers and that gave me trouble. Unfortunately, I cannot find my notes on what I did a couple of years ago.

Thanks for the info and research items.

Bryce

[OTTODAD]

Hi Bill !

What you are looking at here is my Default.wag which has not changed since I have released it and is dated the 4th of October. Compare it's parameters with your copy of it !

HAPPY NEW YEAR !

O t t o

[Turbo Bill]

otto, can you ost a zip of that DEFAULT wag file so I can print it out and do a line by line comparison? Thanks for letting me use this to base my work on and include it with my work. Appreciated greatly here in the Pacific Northwest.

[Busdriver]

Bill,

Unless I missed something, the one you are including with your couplers is exactly the same as the one Otto put out.

Bryce

Edit: I just went and checked using WinMerge, and the file Otto put out in his pack, and the one you put in your Pro coupler pack are identical.

[OTTODAD]

Another comparison is featured in the attached JPG in my post #719 above.

O t t o

[Turbo Bill]

Otto, my dear dear friend, I am blind in one eye and questionable in the other and using an old regular monitor not a high tech, LCD, Digital double whammy super zoom screen monitor. I even tried to use a magnifying glass and I still can't read the numbers my friend. Can you post a zip of the correct DEFAULT wag file that I can print out. Make sure it has the correct three lines that we are using for Bin purposes. I am now going to go pour cold water on my eyes as they are on fire. Bad eyes + big magnifying glass + older monitor screen equals welding flash.

[OTTODAD]

Sorry to hear about your eye problems, Bill, I am trying not to acquire too by making sure that none of my monitors ever display anything at more than 1024x768 resolution, display fonts and icons enlarged, my computing professionals kids having ruined their eyes looking at them for many years since University and now my granddaughter also needing glasses, developing short-sightedness.

Can you warn computers users about the dangers of looking at monitors from close up and displaying microscopic lettering ? No chance of them listening ! :-(

Working on my son's 22" Apple TFT monitor at 1920x1200 I am glad to get away from it after a while.

Anyway, attached is a ZIP with both my Default.wag and the 2001 original.

Take care, O t t o.

http://forums.flightsim.com/ts/user_files/114051.zip

[Turbo Bill]

Thank you so much Otto, my eyeballs thank you as well as my dwindling supply of headache medicine. I will post here if I have any questions. Again thanks for hte support and help you have given me on this massive project.