2007-01-03 BIN and miniroutes

[muskokaandtahoe]

I installed the himem version the other day on a mini route, then the original MSTS installation, both of which seemed fine, and then tried a second miniroute where the install failed. Said I already had bin installed. I checked out a few things and the first two installs seemed fine.

I spend a lot of time int he route editor and that seemed fine over the past 3 days.

Today I tried running the first miniroute and there were all sorts of error messages about screens right after the corporate marketing screens. The first one says "Failed to setup loading screen". On checking things out I noticed there was only 1 file in the MSTSbin_backup directory of the miniroute. The same directory in the original MSTS installation was full of files. I still have no problem in running the route editor.

This suggests to me there is something wrong with the installation routine when performed more than once.

Has anyone else noticed this?

Also, since the MSTSbin_backup directory of the miniroute is, essentially empty, how do I uninstall it?

[b]Dave Nelson
SLW Route Design: The Cal-P, 1950.[b]
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/muskokaandtahoe/Avatars/Dancing_Genma.gif
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/muskokaandtahoe/Avatars/4ad3d633.jpg

[cbblackard]

I use mini-routes and have experienced a lot of issues using BIN (particularly when trying to use one version of BIN with one mini-route and another version of BIN with a different mini-route).

Here's what I THINK is the situation:

You need to have the identical version of BIN in your original MSTS folder and your mini-routes. And you must un-install previous versions of BIN on ALL mini-routes before installing a different version of BIN on ANY mini-route. And whenever you un-install a version of BIN, you need to make absolutely certain that the MSTSBIN_BACKUP folder is deleted in every mini-route folder (which doesn't necessarily occur when running the uninstall .exe).

Thus, when the new 1.7xxx version of BIN came out, I: 1) uninstalled the previous version from my original MSTS folder and all mini-routes; 2) manually deleted the MSTSBIN_BACKUP folder from any routes where it still existed after the uninstall; 3) re-updated my original MSTS folder and mini-routes with the official MSTS 1.2 update; 4) installed the latest version of BIN to my original MSTS folder; and 5) installed the latest version of BIN to each of my mini-routes. Having done all of that, I haven't had any problems.

This, of course, is a royal pain if I want to use an earlier version of BIN (i.e. one that does not have the "penalty light" bug for F-Units). I have to go through the above-procedure all over again. So if anyone knows of an easier way, I'd love to hear it.

[OTTODAD]

Hi Dave !

Every time you run a MSTSBin installer it will show you the MSTS Registry path to install into. If you want to install it into a MINI route then you simply Browse to it's folder which contains a Version 1.2 (1.4) December 2001 Train.exe and install the MSTSBin patch into it.

If a previous version of a MSTSBin patch has been installed into a MINI MSTS copy then it must be un-installed first, using it's Uninst_MSTS Patch*.exe.

After installing the MSTSBin patch into any MINI copy of MSTS you must make sure that the English DLL files the installer placed into a new Translated DLLs\EN folder in the MINI copy's root folder are being PASTED into it's root folder, overwriting the existing ones.

A MSTSBin Uninst_MSTS Patch*.exe does not restore the previous DLLs, I shall have to tell George about.

I have dozens of MSTS copies on my computer, using all versions of MSTS from version 1.4 to 1.5, 2 of the MSTSBin 1.6 and now the 1.7 version ! ;-)

O t t o

http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/up1/114163.jpg

[ideaman]

Hi Otto. I started to use miniroutes a few years ago after you put out a tutorial and have had great luck with them. The only difference is that I don't copy the sim. I tried that and somehow they would get corrupted.Now I put on full installs off the discs which seems that I am always into the registry. I just rename each route when I want to work on one. This must be so because I have two different installs of BIN on the same drive and they work independantly of each other.Now I haven't got into doing lights or switching cab as off right now I am happy to run activies that I never could before. One other thing ,when I put a new route on I delete everything that the route only needs to run. Greg.

[Huecuvoe]

>This, of course, is a royal pain if I want to use an earlier
>version of BIN (i.e. one that does not have the "penalty
>light" bug for F-Units). I have to go through the
>above-procedure all over again. So if anyone knows of an
>easier way, I'd love to hear it.

Junctions. I have had as many as 3 versions of MSTSBin as well as the original MS v1.2/1.4 functional as "mini-routes" at the same time. It is helpful to have some knowledge of DOS.

[OTTODAD]

I just rename each route when I want to work on one.

That's another method of running MINI routes, Greg !

But I find that all my MINI routes work, including their editors, whether the Registry paths point to them or not. That includes MSTS copies of all versions of the MSTSBin patches.

O t t o

http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/up1/114188.jpg

[OTTODAD]

Hi !

I have different versions of the MSTS Train.exe in various MSTS MINI route copies, all independently working from each other, irrespective of what version the Train.exe is in the installed from CDs MSTS !

Un-installing a MSTSBin patch in a MSTS MINI copy does just that and does nothing anywhere else.

Any installed into a MSTS MINI copy MSTSBin patch's Train.exe looks for it's latest English DLLs files in the root of the MSTS Registry Train Simulator path and for the installed GUI files in the MSTS MINI copy and is not concerned with any other versions of the Train.exe installed elsewhere.

All these DLL files do is determine the display of dialog boxes and text such as the new diagnostic HUD and in no way affect the functions of the Train.exe code. You could use the 2001 default DLLs but would not benefit from the MSTSBin patch on-screen improvements.

O t t o

[muskokaandtahoe]

Otto, I can assure you that when the installation stops with an error message stating MSTS-Bin is already installed to a specific directory AND I know that is not there, there's an issue to resolve.

I'm examining his build report to see if there is any residue that should have been taken away. It would be far easier to do if George had a way to insert his name -- or some other code -- into one of the extra file characteristics fields, such as author or comments. That way the field could be displayed and sorted in win explorer and his work would visually stand out.

[b]Dave Nelson
SLW Route Design: The Cal-P, 1950.[b]
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/muskokaandtahoe/Avatars/Dancing_Genma.gif
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/muskokaandtahoe/Avatars/4ad3d633.jpg

[OTTODAD]

Hi Dave !

There were many reporting that they could not install a MSTSBin patch and the reason for that was always one the following:

A) The MSTSBIN_BACKUP folder was still present in the Train Simulator folder of the patched MSTS, may that be the installed from CDs one or a MINI copy of it.

B) The train.exe in the Train Simulator folder was not this Version 1.2 / 1.4 - 3997 Kb, dated December 2001:

http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/up1/114201.jpg

I lost count of how many times I test installed and un-installed all versions of MSTSBin into many of my MSTS MINI routes and never had a problem doing it.

If despite the above you still have problems then the cause is specific to your computer and MSTS, George can not concern himself with without investigating it in detail, he can not do from a distance and doubt whether he would if he could, you being the only one I have heard of who still has problems after doing what I advised others to do ! ;-)

O t t o

[muskokaandtahoe]

Otto, I have no expectation that George would help me solve my particular problem. What I was asking was something that would make it easier at some future date to quickly determine if there were any of his files present. It seems that's already been done and I was just unaware of it -- file version. From now on I'll simply display file version in win explorer and sort on that column -- as you can see here:

http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/up1/114205.jpg

Dave Nelson
SLW Route Design: The Cal-P, 1950.[b]
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/muskokaandtahoe/Avatars/Dancing_Genma.gif
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/muskokaandtahoe/Avatars/4ad3d633.jpg


**EDIT**

Hmmm. It's still a problem. What you see when you do properties, file version is different from what you see when you display file version in win explorer.

So my request remains open, tho I'll rephrase it: Can George add anything that will be visually noticed in the win explorer window? Any field, such as file version, or author, or comments, or whatever he can figure out that will work... just so people can visually inspect their directories and determine who wrote the file: George or Kuju.

[OTTODAD]

Have a look at this from one of my MSTSBin copies root folder, Dave:

http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/up1/114207.jpg

The file version numbers in the basic properties are all the same but the file dates (UK here) indicate which version they are, the 1.7.0103 train.exe being the active one at the moment !

O t t o

P.S.: You may notice that I have been experimenting with the string.dll in this MSTS copy, using the default one. Doing various tests with all the dialog.dll & string.dll versions, nothing made any difference to the running of this MSTSBin patch, other than it not displaying the visual improvements made by the latest versions !

[muskokaandtahoe]

It doesn't help much when it's sitting the a static catalog directory Otto. I'm speaking of when MSTS-bin been installed and removed and something -- whatever it may be -- has gone wrong and one is left to try to piece together what happened.

For instance, in one of my miniroutes train.exe tells me it's version 1.4 from microsoft. But when I try and run the sim it gets halfway thru the initialization (as in past the selection of Explore route) and it tells me "Failed to initialize activity manager", whatever that is. That may, or may not be related to MSTS-bin but absent some quick and obvious way to see if any of George's files are hanging about I'm left to checking them one by one.

[b]Dave Nelson
SLW Route Design: The Cal-P, 1950.[b]
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/muskokaandtahoe/Avatars/Dancing_Genma.gif
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/muskokaandtahoe/Avatars/4ad3d633.jpg

[OTTODAD]

Hi Dave !

Have asked George what the cause of this "Failed to initialize activity manager" problem is after a MSTSBin patch has been un-installed and the version 1.4 train.exe has been restored !

O t t o

[muskokaandtahoe]

Makes sense Otto as that's pretty much where I am in the cleanup. Not quite sure what exactly has gone wrong but I'll fix it eventually.

I do have a suggestion for George: Add the install path to his message that says "bin is already installed". It's clear he's checking versions before moving forward so I suspect adding the path to the message would be trivial work. See, I do had multiple installations of bin when I saw that message and so I got confused, not realizing it was in reference to the current path (having just installed bin twice already I was thinking it meant what I had just done). Had the message included the current path I would have instantly understood the problem I was dealing with.

It's a small thing (that blew up in my face) and I should have grasped the meaning right off, but I didn't. And I suspect I'm not going to be the only one.

[b]Dave Nelson
SLW Route Design: The Cal-P, 1950.[b]
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/muskokaandtahoe/Avatars/Dancing_Genma.gif
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/muskokaandtahoe/Avatars/4ad3d633.jpg

[OTTODAD]

I do have a suggestion for George: Add the install path to his message that says "bin is already installed".

The install path is already known to whoever installs a MSTSBin patch, because when you install MSTSBin it asks you to accept it's Registry path or select another copy of MSTS to install the patch into. It is this path which will have a problem if there is no Version 1.2 / Patch 1.4 December 2001 Train.exe in it.

Un-installing a MSTSBin patch must be done by it's Uninst_MSTS Patch*.exe which is located in the MSTS copy it is to be removed from, deleting it's MSTSBIN_BACKUP folder and restoring the December 2001 Train.exe !

O t t o

[muskokaandtahoe]

> The install path is already known to whoever installs a MSTSBin patch....

Yes Otto, I understand that. Consider this sequence:

Begin Install bin here.
Install completed.
Begin Install bin there.
Install completed.
Begin install another place.
"ERROR: you have already installed bin".

No kidding....

Now let me rephrase the issue. That error message is in past tense. The past tense can refer to an old version of bin found in the current install path (which is factually correct) OR it could refer to what the user did 45 seconds ago on another path (a user error). Which is it? Did the user make a mistake and select the first or second path again by mistake? Was bin installed already on the third path (factually correct) AND THE USER DOESN'T KNOW THAT?

All I'm suggesting is any confusion over what is going on could be eliminated by the simple change of including the install path in the error message... perhaps something like this:

"Error: You have already installed MSTS-bin to c:\program files\microsoft games\train similator. Please uninstall that version before installing this one" where that path info displayed is the same as what the user has given to the install routine.

It's just one of those situations Otto that I'm sure you've seen many times before where the programmer knows exactly what error he has trapped, writes a short message that seems obvious to him but the users do not understand it at all. That we're also dealing with several spoken languages here may well be part of the problem.

[b]Dave Nelson
SLW Route Design: The Cal-P, 1950.[b]
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/muskokaandtahoe/Avatars/Dancing_Genma.gif
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/muskokaandtahoe/Avatars/4ad3d633.jpg

[OTTODAD]

Hi Dave !

There are only a few reasons why a MSTSBin patch can not install.

The first one is that there is no Version 1.2 - Patch 1.4 December 2001 Train.exe in the folder the patch is to be installed into:

http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/up1/114257.jpg

The second one is that there is already a MSTSBin patch installed in the destination folder, which has not been un-installed using it's Uninst_MSTS Patch*.exe:

http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/up1/114258.jpg

The third one, giving the same error message, is that the patch was incorrectly un-installed, using the Control Panel "Add or Remove Programs" option or other method, leaving the MSTSBIN-BACKUP folder behind and/or has not restored the Version 1.2 - Patch 1.4 December 2001 Train.exe !

Whichever copy of MSTS gets any of these error messages trying to install a MSTSBin patch into has to be dealt with correcting what the MSTSBin installer complains about before it can install another patch, the error message showing you the path the installer is having a problem with !

O t t o