MSTS-X across the Pond

[OTTODAD]

They had a head-start with a MSTS-X specific forum over there and the top threads provide some interesting reading and perhaps can stimulate USA train simmers to voice their thoughts and make sensible suggestions as to what they would like it to do ? ;-)

http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewforum.php?f=186&sid=5e4dd5a53782645a07f728ee733a21ad

O t t o

[Richard]

Hello Otto,
You're not kidding about the members of the UK Train Sim having an opinion on the new Microsoft Train Simulator, that second thread has 10 pages :)

Take care,
Rich S.

[ATSF]

I would imagine the design and content of the new sim was pretty well set before it was announced. As a programmer, you know they are not going to do last minute changes to put in bells and whistles (pun intended) suggested from this forum at this late date. I would expect the design also includes hooks as to what will be offered in later releases as well.

They no doubt reviewed the forum before setting the design. They then made a business case as to what will be included based on its desirability versus cost to develop it. For example, a workable turntable is a known want and the developers know that. Depending on how much it costs and time it takes to develop will determine whether it is included in the first version or not.

Its a sim (or game) to us. Its cold hard business to the developers.
What will be offered will be the most allure that can be achieved at the lowest possible cost.

Anyway, I plan on buying both of the new sims regardless of the content. You know they can be improved - look at what has been accomplished with clutsy MSTS.

I think Microsoft has the best strategy in the long run. The will provide us with a more glitzy sim, that will cause us to upgrade to more powerful computers. Also, they will have a platform that will allow for upward compatibility in later versons - ala the MSFS
series.

The upgrade to Vista is gonna happen anyway,
regardless of what happens in the train sim world.

I know, I know, many say they are not going to upgrade to Vista.
These are probably the same folks that swore they were not going to upgrade to XP.

I am saving my pennies for a new computer and two new sims.
I am hoping the timing is such tha the new sims come out, after the major bugs in Vista have been fixed. Thats when I am going to buy.

Meanwhile, I am working on throw away routes that will not be portable to new sims. At least, I hope they wont be or else we will only have a patched up MSTS - not a new sim.

I plan on releasing the ATSF Phoenix Sub in about three months -
followed by the ATSF Needles Sub several months after that.

By the time I get to Phoenix .......


http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/up1/116443.jpg


http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/up1/116444.jpg

[OTTODAD]

Yes Rich, that's what prompted me to nudge Nels into creating a new MSTS-X forum ! ;-)

They had their say and it's about time that we let GAMES STUDIOS know what our views on the subject are !

Although living in the UK, I am more USA railroads orientated, MARIAS-KOOTENAI and GOLD-SPIKE and my son and his family living in Salt Lake City, I am frequently watching long freight trains run South when visiting them ! :7

Take care, O t t o.

[OTTODAD]

Same here, Bob !

I am working on my GOLD-SPIKE route, which is a merged WHITEFISH-RR-7 and the MARIAS part of the MARIAS-KOOTENAI, while waiting for VISTA to settle down, it's first Service Patch already in the making.

Once I can be sure that MSTS-X and MSFS-X will run on it perfectly, pulling out all the stops, then I shall upgrade to a new computer which can cope with them !

Take care, O t t o.

[TrainFanAmtrak]

I think MSTS-X might look realistic but I may have to upgrade my computer or a get new one once MSTS-X comes out.

[landnrailroader]

Well Bob, that looks like an interesting route. Since I went back to work full-time for a railway signal design firm, I have less time to put in building routes, but I am piddling away on a sim of the former L&N, Hook & Eye Line. It will be the last generic track sim that I create, after which I'll either go to X-tracks etc. or the new sim. will be out, whichever is first.
I would hope that there is upward compatibility between the existing sim. and the new one even if it is only in the ability to upgrade objects. I note that trestle in one of your images, and as you know, something like that can be a major effort, even though it occupies a miniscule part of a route. The RMD-4 was "modelled" or "simmed" using bridges made from Milwaukee Road design sketches, and in some cases, the scenery had to be altered to make them fit. HOwever, laying the track was easy, and only took a couple of months - likewise the track on the H&E only took about a month, but detailing is the tedious part, although Lukas Lussar taught me how to place phone poles, fences, and other items using the gantry.dat file and that speeded up the detailing considerably.
I have already figured that I can upgrade my computer for between $300 & $500. As I use it in a home business, I am able to have it worked on, upgraded, (or built from scratch as was the case when I bought in 10/05) and will also get an OEM version of Vista at wholesale if I upgrade it. Like others though, I don't want to think about Vista until the 1st or 2nd SP comes out for it.
As an aside, I went in CompUsa a few weeks ago, and there was a huge rack right inside the door, practically groaning with the weight of various flavors of Vista on it. I asked a friend who works there how it was selling, and he said, "it isn't". Told me that the only Vista they had sold was that which came with new computers and many buyers were specifically stating they would not pay for a computer that did not have -XP on it, so it is not terribly popular right now. My IT colleague at work has no plans to upgrade from XP anytime soon, as our CAD software (Microstation) runs fine on XP, and we have nearly 100 computers, most of which would require upgrade or replacement to run it.

Jerry Sullivan

[ATSF]

Jerry
They may be able to provide upward compatibility for objects as I understand they are making them with GMAX. Ive been using TSM to build objects. Maybe I should learn GMAX pronto.
BTW the trestles used on the bridge you mentioned (Hell Canyon) are the joint work of none other than Ron Picardi and you.
Bob

[dgauci]

>The upgrade to Vista is gonna happen anyway,
>regardless of what happens in the train sim world.
>
>I know, I know, many say they are not going to upgrade to
>Vista.
>These are probably the same folks that swore they were not
>going to upgrade to XP.

Don’t forget those of us who because we are completely computer fluent are avoiding Vista because we have used Vista. I’ve always been a Microsoft OS early adopter changing my OS on the initial release day. I had the foresight to completely avoid the Windows ME debacle, and I’m sitting out the Vista disaster as well. History repeats itself again.

I have a brand new Vista pre-installed system I purchased for my wife’s system to reinforce why I will never put Vista on my other three Windows XP systems. Even with 2 gigs of RAM it runs very slow, and the constant hand holding and confirmation boxes to do everything, including just checking your email using Outlook is beyond ridiculous.

This OS was a huge mistake, since it is obviously not ready for release yet, not even remotely close. Like Windows 98 wait for Vista SE (Second Edition) before upgrading to this turkey and even then wait for the reviews first.

Windows XP Pro is still the best OS that Microsoft has ever released, don’t break a good system by downgrading it to Vista!!

[Turbo Bill]

Then there's those of us who can't afford a new computer to run Vista. I have a comp that two years ago was considered top shelf. Now it's parts are bargain basement but run MSTS great. The thing is it's garbage to Vista. I can't see throwing a great machine out the door just to use a newer OS. I know I will eventually have to upgrade but then again, I may not be able to afford the kind of comp needed to run the next sim if it needs Vista to run it.

[landnrailroader]

Bob,

I suspect that trestle is more Ron's work than mine, but one thing about it, I have also done on my Hook & Eye route.

The L&N, for many years, but a herald on just about anything that might be visible to the public. Passenger enginies had the herald under the cab windows in steam. But what I remember most was that every little rinky-dink underpass that we ever drove under had a highly visible herald centered over the roadway.

L&N was also famous for little concrete tunnels under the track for roads. In the 1912 era, when the mainline part of the H&E was constructed, or improved (part north of Etowah existed as part of the Knoxville & Atlanta and was "improved", a lot of these little concrete structures, looking like oversize culverts, were installed over many farm roads and some paved roads. They were a terrible road hazard even then, most being just one lane in width. So I have put heralds on the bridges and used a number of concrete "tunnels" under the track.

I have Gmax as well, and just have never looked closely at it. I would be surprised if Abacus does not come out with a newer version of TSM for MSTS-X, since they support just about every MSFS version that has come out. I also have 3D Canvas and have created a few simple items with it, but it is rather complex to use although much of it resembles the CAD software that I use everyday.

Jerry Sullivan

[OTTODAD]

Yes, Dennis, the general consensus is that VISTA compared with WIN-XP is a step backward and is creating more problems than it cures, similar to what WIN-ME was compared with WIN-98SE ! ;-)

All the additional Mickey Mouse graphics such as AERO will need to be coded for VISTA 64-Bit to run on a at least dual-core CPU computers with at least 2 Gb of fast RAM and the fasted DirectX-10 video card available !

Take care, O t t o.

[ATSF]

Jerry
I think you did the piers on that trestle. That would be great if Abacus creates an interface to the new sim. Hopfully, all we would have to do is copy our project file over to the new program and "reompile" to recreate the object in whatever format replaces the s and sd files in the new sim.
Bob

[OTTODAD]

Hi Bob !

3D-CANVAS, which has been used by many MSTS content creators, has functions which can create the MSTS shape files for objects created with it:

http://www.amabilis.com/msts.htm

Popularity of MSTS-X increasing, they might consider doing the same for output into object shape files as used by it ? I think it can also import objects using popular graphics formats such as BITMAPS for conversion to whatever ?

Has been a while since I had a go trying to create MSTS tracks with it ! :-(

O t t o

[landnrailroader]

3D Canvas is somewhat more difficult (at least I think so) to use than TSM, so I hope that Abacus is also looking at providing an upgrade or new product or whatever for the new Sim.

Jerry Sullivan

[dgauci]

>Yes, Dennis, the general consensus is that VISTA compared
>with WIN-XP is a step backward and is creating more problems
>than it cures, similar to what WIN-ME was compared with
>WIN-98SE ! ;-)

History is repeating itself again. Windows ME was a premature release full of problems. Vista is proving to be just the same.

>All the additional Mickey Mouse graphics such as AERO will
>need to be coded for VISTA 64-Bit to run on a at least
>dual-core CPU computers with at least 2 Gb of fast RAM and the
>fasted DirectX-10 video card available !

Vista is slow with 2 Gb of RAM running without Aero and no multi-tasking taking place, which is the Vista setup I'm currently testing. With Vista you need a working minimum of 4 Gb of RAM to get back up to reasonable speed again. Vista's working minimum requirements are proving to be many times greater than XP's. This is why it has been likened to a pig wearing makeup and a wig.

Stay with Windows XP Pro as long as you can, Vista is a major DOWNGRADE by direct comparison. If you're forced to Vista by a new system purchase you have my sincere condolences.

Being an experienced IT pro I can't fully tell you on a family friendly board how frustrating I've found trying to operate with Vista to be.

[OTTODAD]

Thanks, Dennis !

I shall wait for guys like you who have to use it in a demanding IT environment to give it a GREEN before I get a new computer with it installed and hope to live long enough to see that and MSTS-X happen ! :7

Take care, O t t o.

[SpaceBiscuit]

I am also in IT, and have been "testing" vista.. thank goodness I have a corporate license of XP Pro, I am in the process of building a new box, and will be loading XP.

[rocky]

I agree.

ASTA LA VISTA