Some good News!!

[tcain1]

Aces, has announced in the last couple of days that the SP1 patch due this month for FSX will take full advantage of both dual core and quad core systems. This will undoubtly improve performance, which I'm sure will spill over into TSX! It will also be scalable to utilize additional core systems via a configuration setting as they become available. This applies to both INTEL and AMD systems. In fact Intel used this info, in their unveiling of their QX6800 CPU! You can read more at AVSIM.COM

[wakeboarder82]

http://blogs.msdn.com/ptaylor/archive/2007/04/09/fsx-sp1-news-intel-quote.aspx

Here's the link to Phil Taylor's Blog with more detailed info. This is fantastic news for me as an FSX owner but I also think you are right to assume that we will see this in MSTS-X. This is great news for the future of train simming. I am now seriously considering building a new system a few months down the road. If the multi core setups will see up to 20% increase in FPS then I can't wait to see what I will get going from a P4 3.02 ghtz and a 9600XT to a quad core with SLI.

[tcain1]

>http://blogs.msdn.com/ptaylor/archive/2007/04/09/fsx-sp1-news-intel-quote.aspx
>
>Here's the link to Phil Taylor's Blog with more detailed info.
> This is fantastic news for me as an FSX owner but I also
>think you are right to assume that we will see this in MSTS-X.
> This is great news for the future of train simming. I am now
>seriously considering building a new system a few months down
>the road. If the multi core setups will see up to 20%
>increase in FPS then I can't wait to see what I will get going
>from a P4 3.02 ghtz and a 9600XT to a quad core with SLI.

The thing that is real encouraging is that Phil has consistently stated, that his 20% FPS increase estimate is a conservative one! Also there is a discussion going on right now with Phil on any additional SLI benefit, and I just asked the question about Crossfire support! Right now it doesn't look like there is any benefit, other than what the drivers handle automatically. So unless you intend to use SLI for other APPS, I don't think you can expect any better performance or worse than a single GPU in FSX or TSX. It does (As with ATI Xfires) expand your Anti Aliasing options though!!

[OTTODAD]

Great, Thomas !

Could be that I shall be able to get my last computer by next year, earlier than I thought, after VISTA SP1 has been released and DirectX-10 has been sorted ! ;-)

Take care, O t t o.

[tcain1]

Just an update on FSX SP1 and how it pertains to MSTSX!

SP1 is in final testing now, and should be released by next week, barring any major issues. Phil from Aces, has confirmed, the new train sim performance will benefit from SP1's multi Core support also.

[djt]

"Just an update on FSX SP1 and how it pertains to MSTSX!"

How FSX SP1 pertains to MSTSX ?

Train Simulator X is a ways off, by that time any performance increase you see with FSX SP1 and it’s use of the of the second core (although still greatly underutilized) of a dual core CPU will be long forgotten.

We will be looking for a fully multithreaded program that not only takes advantage of the CPU but the GPU by way of DirectX 10 by the time Train Simulator X is released.

By the way some great discussions on SP1 can be found over at the AVSIM forums (under FSX). In addition to the SP1 patch, the talented individual that has come up with Tile Proxy mentioned last night that he would be releasing an updated version of the program, possible today. Phil from ACES also mentioned that Christian (the developer of Tile Proxy) is involved in the beta testing of SP1, so hopefully we will have Tile Proxy compatibility with FSX SP1.

[djt]

Here is a little info that was taken from a discussion at AVSIM posted by one of the guys over at ACES. It pertains to some work that will be delegated to the second core in FSX SP1.

Although this is definitely a step in the right direction I think full multi-core support and better yet, full GPU utilization is going to take more than a service pack patch.


“Work still occurs on the main core, core 0, in SP1, even in terrain.

Its just the terrain texture synthesis that happens on cores 1-n in SP1. So the fiber system still needs time.

Loading photo-textures is a different path than the default terrain textures and the 9-layer synthesis that occurs, so trying to map what happens for the default terrain scenery onto photo-scenery is probably where the confusion lies.

How much time, and what impact on that tweak the fact that the texture synthesis will be on the other cores - as I said in that comment reply, I need to doublecheck with Adam on that.

And on whether photo-scenery gets any benefit from the multi-core work. And on what setting a 0-100 percent value to >100 means. My instinct is 1 is the same as 2, but I need to double-check that.

Senior PM, Graphics and Terrain
Aces Studio, MGS”

[rfranzosa]

DUMB QUESTION TIME!

As I am about to buy a new computer, what impact should this have on my decision and (dumb question) does this have any impact on current MSTS performance?

Rick

[tcain1]

How FSX SP1 pertains to MSTSX ?

It will take advantage of the performance gains of the multi core support being implemented in SP1, which the RTM version of FSX lacks currently. Phil is quoted as saying some will see up to 20-50% gain, depending on H/W.

[djt]

“As I am about to buy a new computer, what impact should this have on my decision and (dumb question) does this have any impact on current MSTS performance?”

It’s already to the point where dual core is the norm, soon you will have a hard time finding single core CPU’s. Quad core will probably be the norm by the end of this year, early next, so I don’t think there is much decision making with that one.

Like I said above by the time Train Simulator X is released DirectX 10 applications will have been released and we might be even be talking about FS11. FSX SP1 and its performance benefit will be long forgotten.

None of this has any thing to do with MSTS performance other than the fact that Intel’s Core 2 CPU’s will give you the best performance even though MSTS is far from being a multithreaded application.

[djt]

“It will take advantage of the performance gains of the multi core support being implemented in SP1, which the RTM version of FSX lacks currently. Phil is quoted as saying some will see up to 20-50% gain, depending on H/W.”

So will every other game that comes out around the time of Train Simulator X’s release, that’s a given. The fact that some patch released “back in the Spring of 2007” for FSX with some abbreviated multi-core support will be lost in the sea of other programming advancements by the time TS-X is released. DirectX 10 will be one of them.

[CWA13000]

"Great, Thomas !

Could be that I shall be able to get my last computer by next
year, earlier than I thought, after VISTA SP1 has been
released and DirectX-10 has been sorted ! ;-)

Take care, O t t o."


Hi, Otto, are you going to build your own or order from someone like Dell? I guess I won't have to prod you to divuldge the details when you make your move.

I questioned a friend who just got a complete system and he said that he had a restore disk but not a full edition disk of the new Vista OS.
I prefer to build from scratch and buy full edition OS disks for my machines.

Keep in mind that I don't claim to know much, just enough to be dangerous.

The last time I bought a full system from a store, a quick glance at the specs. said that it was upgradeable but when I got around to thinking about adding more RAM, I opened the box to put in an extra module and found that they had already filled all the slots. The mother board on that machine was mounted on a swing out door but it would not swing out untill a bunch of components were removed. That is when I decided to do it myself the next time and get a box that made more sense.

Happy Rails to You

Wild Willy the Wacko

[djt]

“I questioned a friend who just got a complete system and he said that he had a restore disk but not a full edition disk of the new Vista OS.”

I just bought a Dell XPS M1710 for work. It was ordered with Vista Ultimate and came with a full copy, Vista Ultimate OS DVD.

[tcain1]

>So will every other game that comes out around the time of
>Train Simulator X’s release, that’s a given. The fact that
>some patch released “back in the Spring of 2007” for FSX
>with some abbreviated multi-core support will be lost in the
>sea of other programming advancements by the time TS-X is
>released. DirectX 10 will be one of them.
>

Had it not been for the performance issues reported after FSX's release, there wouldn't have been an SP1 release, at least not for performance. SP1 was not in the original release plan and certainly not Multi-core support, the first patch was suppose to be the DX10 patch, which is now scheduled I believe sometime in the fall. Aces had to do something about the performance so they added multi core support. Had this not happen, it's doubtful multi-core support would have been added to FSX, and by extension, TSX since that uses the same engine, unless performance issues cropped up with that sim. So I don't think you can automatically assume TSX would have gotten this support, had it not been for the necessity of SP1 for FSX.

[djt]

“So I don't think you can automatically assume TSX would have gotten this support, had it not been for the necessity of SP1 for FSX.”

What?

You are kidding right.

Go back and read through the hundreds of posts that were plastered all over AVSIM and Flightsim when FSX was released. You will find a response from ACES that addressed the reason why FSX was not multithreaded. It was lack of insight into where Intel and AMD were going with CPU advancements during development. News of the brick wall that Intel hit with clock speed was just beginning to get out.

Mean while back at the ranch, ACES was thinking of 4-5GHz single core processors by the time FSX was released. Instead of clock speed we got multi-core processors and a lot more efficient architecture.

I don’t think you’ll find many game development companies that are going to start designing a program for a 2008-2009 release without it being multithreaded, none that plan on being successful anyway.

One other thing that has not been brought up, the gamming platform that really got the ball started with multithreaded games. Microsoft’s own XBOX 360, released in 2005.