My Thoughts On How The Sim Will Turn Out

[TrainMan_112]

Personally, I think the simulator will be a hit. I'm getting this feeling from two things. Look at the in-game shots, it's amazing, to say the least. The crew members appear animated, and I thought I read something that stated how pedestrians and crew members were fully animated. (Not just a stationary object in the cab, FULLY ANIMATED!)

My second belief has to do with Microsoft themself. If this is indeed exclusive to Windows Vista, then it seems much more of a marketing strategy related to Vista then it does an independent project. If they want this strategy to work, quality is required. Not just a great looking simulator, but a better system overall.

My original plans were to stick with KRS when it releases, but by the looks of MSTS-X/2, it will be hard to resist.

Also, I believe we have a confirmed route for the new simulator. If you look closely in one of the screenshots, an Amtrak "Johnstown PA" sign appears on a building. This route seems to be very detailed, and I don't think Micrsoft would spend that much time just for a demo route. We can also expect BNSF to re-appear, as there's also a rendering of a BNSF C44-9W. My two favorite railways from both sides of the continent!

[eaglefan9727]

It has been confirmed already that the horseshoe curve route is being done for MSTS 2. At this time, That is the only route named for this new sim.

Ive seen the screenshots myself and I was very impressed with them, But the more I hear about the sim. The more I am loosing interest in the sim. How can you not have atleast one of the biggest historic western routes is beyond me and I am talking about Tehachapi, Cajon, or Donner. Atleast one of those 3 should be in the original sim as that is what railroading is all about.

Yes, They have the BNSF rendering, So that means they will have atleast one BNSF route in the original package of the sim. We probably wont know for quite a while, But I can surely say that it wont be Cajon Pass or Tehachapi as Union Pacific shares thpse two routes and earlier tonight. I read a post that there are no UP routes that are candidates for the sim which knocks off the Cajon Pass or Tehachapi routes all together.

[TrainMan_112]

I'd personally like to see a route less famous. BNSF's Bighorn Sub? It runs from Forsyth, Montana, West to Laurel Montana, and South (railroad East) to Sherdian, Wyoming. It's a great route which handles everything, including Boeing wide-load and fueselage cars.

[eaglefan9727]

I agree. I would like to see some less famous routes as well such as the Southern Pacific Lordsburg division or Eagles Pass in Texas. I have no problems with routes like that, But I just think the sim needs atleast one big pass route like a Cajon, Tehachapi, or Donner to get a wider audience interested in the sim.

[cbq311]

Why? MSTS did just fine with Marias.

[tcain1]

I think the problem with having a UP route, is UP's licensing policies. They would require royalties, to use their trademark. Also it looks like Kuju RS will have Cajon, and they will be using UP stock. Maybe they have secured exclusive rights from UP.

[TrainMan_112]

I also don't think it would take too long for routes such as Cajon to appear.

[mrmike]

Tom,

Exclusive from UP is just not going to happen. UP would not give up the chance to license as many as they can.

Mike
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y177/mrmike1/PELogo.gif
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y177/mrmike1/sylvester.gif
This smile says it all

[jovet]

I think a lot of you may be forgetting that Union Pacific railroad wanted absolutely nothing to do with MSTS 1. After all, Microsoft approached UP before BNSF. But UP has and surely continues to consider train simulators a "security risk" to their fleet.

[eaglefan9727]

Well, If that is the case. Then why does the KUJU rail sim have a UP route and fleet to their sim?

[TrainMan_112]

I don't know. Maybe Kuju has secured a deal with UP.
I forgot about the SP Lordsburg Division. That's REAL desert railroading, in my opinion. I have the video by Pentrex called "The Stormy". It's great and the route is very interesting.

However, I don't think that would be possible because SP is now a trademark of UP, which will not feature in the simulator.

[jovet]

I've been pondering that one too! I really don't know, other than guessing money. Edit: That, or they don't see a lot of folks on this side of the pond buying KRS nor those across the pond coming to the USA to take a locomotive for a spin.

Also, logically speaking... just because it's been said that no "UP" will feature in MSTS2, doesn't mean that any of its numerous predecessors won't. :)

[ATSF]

Cajon is not a UP Route - It is owned by BNSF. UP has trackage rights.
Tehachapi is the other way around. It is owned by UP and BNSF has trackage rights.

[Richard]

I still think everyone is missing the most important thing that Tdragger has said in a previous post when he talked about the WoR(World of Rails database). The impression I'm getting is every current rail line in the United States and maybe the world will be part of MSTS2. Sure it may not have all the scenery or signals, but it sure sounded like you could pick any location and start running a train from that point.

Just look at this thread:
http://forums.flightsim.com/ts/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=33&topic_id=694&mesg_id=694&page=

If this is true and you like current railroading, it looks like they have already done the hard part for you, all you need to do is add as much detail as you want and presto you have your route. This new sim sounds pretty good to me, I just hope it's not too good to be true.

Take care,
Rich S.

[jovet]

LOL good point. :) duh...

[tcain1]

>Cajon is not a UP Route - It is owned by BNSF. UP has
>trackage rights.
>Tehachapi is the other way around. It is owned by UP and BNSF
>has trackage rights.

Yeah, but to do it realistically, you need to have the rolling stock from both. On the other hand, and something everyone should be aware of as it is a possibility, When MS releases new versions of FS, they traditionally don't include real world airlines. They leave that up to 3rd party developers. They may do the same thing in TS2.

[TrainMan_112]

No, airlines are a little different. MSTS had real railways and it won't be any different with MSTS2.
Look at the orginal Marias Pass. BNSF owned the route, but, to do it realistically, you would need to have BN, ATSF and all sorts of other units. BNSF is one of the most diverse railroads when it comes to motive power and paint schemes.

[TrainMan_112]

>
>Also, logically speaking... just because it's been said that
>no "UP" will feature in MSTS2, doesn't mean that any
>of its numerous predecessors won't. :)
>
>
Well, yes it does mean that they're predecessors won't. UP now owns the right to the logos, fonts, and have everything that has to do with the railroad copyrighted. This means that it's no different than including UP content.

[TrainMan_112]

>I still think everyone is missing the most important thing
>that Tdragger has said in a previous post when he talked about
>the WoR(World of Rails database). The impression I'm getting
>is every current rail line in the United States and maybe the
>world will be part of MSTS2. Sure it may not have all the
>scenery or signals, but it sure sounded like you could pick
>any location and start running a train from that point.
>
>Just look at this thread:
>http://forums.flightsim.com/ts/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=33&topic_id=694&mesg_id=694&page=
>
>If this is true and you like current railroading, it looks
>like they have already done the hard part for you, all you
>need to do is add as much detail as you want and presto you
>have your route. This new sim sounds pretty good to me, I just
>hope it's not too good to be true.
>
>Take care,
>Rich S.
>

It's probably not as good as it sounds. The lines will not include yards, sidings or spurs. Just the basic line from A-B. Most lines probably will be highly innacurate. I'm not insulting Microsofts capability in anyway, but if they wanted to do this, they got a LONG road ahead of them.

[jovet]

Of course UP inherits and owns its predecessor's trademarks and insignias, but you're assuming that they hold those as close and dear as their own.

[B32BWH]

Um, Joseph, must i point out to you what the "heritage" units are ;).

Said in jest, no sarcasm meant. but it is simply what they are, something that says UP still uses the stuff, so they can get royalties.

[tdragger]

>The lines will not
>include yards, sidings or spurs. Just the basic line from A-B.

They won't? What have you heard? Do tell! ;)

>Most lines probably will be highly innacurate. I'm not
>insulting Microsofts capability in anyway, but if they wanted
>to do this, they got a LONG road ahead of them.

Most? That might be a little pessemstic giving our history manipulating large data sets, but, well i guess time will tell...

[cbq311]

Don't you know that some folks know more than those working on it? They are so clairvoyant they know what you are going to do before you do. :)

So just can't wait for any excuse to show that:

they cannot wait for any excuse to tell MS how they want things done and if you do not do their way you are just plain stupid because they know more than you do,

they cannot wait to show their a$$, and

they cannot wait to show how smart they are by speculating everywhere about this and that. They feel if they keep it up, everyone will accept their BS as fact and inflate their ego.

[OwainGlyndwr]

I will pretty much buy it anyway.So as long as this version actually gets finished and released, a definate sale in West Wales. :D

Mike.

[NSFAN]

>>I still think everyone is missing the most important
>thing
>>that Tdragger has said in a previous post when he talked
>about
>>the WoR(World of Rails database). The impression I'm
>getting
>>is every current rail line in the United States and maybe
>the
>>world will be part of MSTS2. Sure it may not have all the
>>scenery or signals, but it sure sounded like you could
>pick
>>any location and start running a train from that point.
>>
>>Just look at this thread:
>>http://forums.flightsim.com/ts/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=33&topic_id=694&mesg_id=694&page=
>>
>>If this is true and you like current railroading, it
>looks
>>like they have already done the hard part for you, all
>you
>>need to do is add as much detail as you want and presto
>you
>>have your route. This new sim sounds pretty good to me, I
>just
>>hope it's not too good to be true.
>>
>>Take care,
>>Rich S.
>>
>
>It's probably not as good as it sounds. The lines will not
>include yards, sidings or spurs. Just the basic line from A-B.
>Most lines probably will be highly innacurate. I'm not
>insulting Microsofts capability in anyway, but if they wanted
>to do this, they got a LONG road ahead of them.
>


Have you seen the sample video of the WoR? The video shows how it works, and they zoomed into a yard area in Europe and the yard was there. So that tells me that yard, sidings, and spurs will be included, not just the line from A to B. And why would it be highly innacurate? You don't know that, I don't know that, nobody knows. Only microsoft knows just how good it's going to be. I think it's going to be as good as they say. But hey, I'm just being optimistic! :)

[TrainMan_112]

>>>I still think everyone is missing the most important
>>thing
>>>that Tdragger has said in a previous post when he
>talked
>>about
>>>the WoR(World of Rails database). The impression I'm
>>getting
>>>is every current rail line in the United States and
>maybe
>>the
>>>world will be part of MSTS2. Sure it may not have all
>the
>>>scenery or signals, but it sure sounded like you
>could
>>pick
>>>any location and start running a train from that
>point.
>>>
>>>Just look at this thread:
>>>http://forums.flightsim.com/ts/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=33&topic_id=694&mesg_id=694&page=
>>>
>>>If this is true and you like current railroading, it
>>looks
>>>like they have already done the hard part for you,
>all
>>you
>>>need to do is add as much detail as you want and
>presto
>>you
>>>have your route. This new sim sounds pretty good to
>me, I
>>just
>>>hope it's not too good to be true.
>>>
>>>Take care,
>>>Rich S.
>>>
>>
>>It's probably not as good as it sounds. The lines will
>not
>>include yards, sidings or spurs. Just the basic line from
>A-B.
>>Most lines probably will be highly innacurate. I'm not
>>insulting Microsofts capability in anyway, but if they
>wanted
>>to do this, they got a LONG road ahead of them.
>>
>
>
>Have you seen the sample video of the WoR? The video shows how
>it works, and they zoomed into a yard area in Europe and the
>yard was there. So that tells me that yard, sidings, and spurs
>will be included, not just the line from A to B. And why would
>it be highly innacurate? You don't know that, I don't know
>that, nobody knows. Only microsoft knows just how good it's
>going to be. I think it's going to be as good as they say. But
>hey, I'm just being optimistic! :)

Ok! Let's see them get it done by Holiday 08! Good luck Microsoft!

[dyvach]

>Most? That might be a little pessemstic giving our history
>manipulating large data sets, but, well i guess time will
>tell...

Manipulation of data is one thing, inherent accuracy of the data sets themselves is another and something that you cannot really help. E.g. level 1 VMAP data have horizontal accuracy of 125-500m (we won't even mention publically available level 0) ... if the data you have at your disposal is of much higher accuracy than that, may i ask who was the provider? If the accuracy *isn't* better than that then well, while 0.5 km may be acceptable level of accuracy while flying a plane 10 km above the ground, on the ground level this is going to be far more noticeable, especially when you aim it at people who can spot size of a rivet is few percent off...

[Poltergeist]

Have they disclose if Multiplayer is going to be available or not?

[NoMoreTrains]

>Have they disclose if Multiplayer is going to be available or not?

From tdragger over on the 3D Trains forums:

"It's not been widely reported but in addition to the entire world of rails will be integrated tools (that is, tools that allow you to modify stuff "live") for modifying and creating new routes. The tools will be based on the same ones we use to model the planet. You'll be able to build and build and build...

and, oh, there will also be multiplayer."

[Poltergeist]

>>Have they disclose if Multiplayer is going to be
>available or not?
>
>From tdragger over on the 3D Trains forums:
>
>"It's not been widely reported but in addition to the
>entire world of rails will be integrated tools (that is, tools
>that allow you to modify stuff "live") for modifying
>and creating new routes. The tools will be based on the same
>ones we use to model the planet. You'll be able to build and
>build and build...
>
>and, oh, there will also be multiplayer."

YAY!!! I will buy MSTS-X! :D

[jovet]

That's exactly my point. I'm saying they could be cheaper!

[landnrailroader]

How can you not have one of your famous western routes included? Easy, if the host railroad of that route does not want you to. Remember that when there was talk of UP having part of this sim. or the earlier MSTS-2, they imposed ludicrous restriction like making it impossible to wreck their trains. Now as a retired railroad employee, I don't like to wreck any train on a simulator, but for some folks that would be a show stopper.
If you think about it, thanks to politics, etc. UP now owns ALL of the western famous routes except those in Washington & Oregon owned by the BNSF, and the one BNSF route into Southern California, so there was not much to chooose from. Also Cajon is already out in freebie and payware versions.

Jerry Sullivan
aka "landnrailroader"

[ooga22000]

Hey There I really agree with your asumsion what i now have seen in the last hour iam getting really excited i also have KRS but I Qoute I find it not that greater sim than MSTS as I also have Railroad Simulator 2006 from Auran Trainz and I QOUTE I found that is was more of an arcade game STUPID green and Red Arrows For your juction swicthes REALLY REALLY WERD. But that is my point of view And not to know what to expect in MSTS 2(X) But as A Sim and Train freak i still love my MSTS to any other Train Sim out there. My Question Where Do you find In Game Screen Shots of MSTS 2(X) >>>>>>>

You Qoute If you look closely in one of the screenshots,

Kind Regards Kev