Steam

[Bill Hobbs]

I've seen a few posts wishing for various steam loco features, but I have a more basic questions: at this point is there any reason at all (i.e. statements from the builders) to acknowledge that steam locos will even be included in the sim? I have seen nothing, though I cannot claim to have pursued the matter very rigorously.

[oakpalms]

Bill,
From what they have shown, it would appear that only the latest world objects will appear as scenery. One has to question just how a 1930's steam engine would look in this century's buildings and structures. Of course, you could say that it was a current fan run of a rebuilt engine.

However, I think you really want to know if the scenery and structures that correspond to the life of the engines and cars that you would run can be made to appear in MSTS-X. I think that is the real concern that you have, is it not?

If the scenery and objects from that time period can't be reproduced, then it would appear that only modern engines would look appropriate with the modern scenery used with MSTS-X. That might leave many, including yourself, more committed to purchase KRS rathern than MSTS-X.

Bob Edwards

[pstraten]

"it would appear that only the latest world objects will appear as scenery. One has to question just how a 1930's steam engine would look in this century's buildings and structures."

Bob,

I certainly had not considered this aspect of the new sim. If this is right, I certainly will not be buying it unless it can be worked around.

My interest in post-1970 railroading is nil. And my preference is pre-WWII.



PaulS

http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/up1/67488.gif

[AlanCh]

The replies from the MSTS2 team on UKTrainsim suggesst that we will be able to recreate routes at any period of time by changing the scenery and track layout. This is the quote from Steve Heijster from Microsoft Game Studios in this thread http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic.php?f=186&t=75767 .

'Add-ons in FSX work by an exclusive\inclusive (I think called opaque\transparent in FSX terms) attribute combined with a priority order in the scenery list. Exclusive add-ons for a given region will exclude the content in that region from any add-ons that are lower priority in the list. Inclusive add-ons are basically additive, and will add their contents to the scenery of all the add-ons below it in the priority list. For your example of the airports, both the add-ons sound like they were set to inclusive, instead of exclusive. If they were exclusive, only the airport with the highest priority would have shown up.

TS2 add-ons will work much in the same way, but we will be adding some features to make creating them, and managing them a whole lot easier.'

Alan

Please have a look at my railway photograph site - http://alan-lewis-chambers.fotopic.net/ - lots of British steam and early diesels

[Bill Hobbs]

Bob,
My concern was based on the fact that I had seen no renderings of anything except current equipment. I had not until today looked at the discussions (see some of the postings below) on the methods for importing data.
The critical thing for steam lovers to have would be the logic to drive steam locos, both in terms of the force and power computations and the 3-d capabilities of making the running gear linkages. I could live with the current landscape (after all, my layout didn't have scenery for years) but the other matters are critical. BTW, see my posting on the KRS forum. I'm giving it a try.

[Traindude]

BTW: I was just about to send an e-mail to the MSTS-X developer's feedback section. I was going to reference the following book:

Wescott, Linn H. Cyclopedia Vol. I - Steam Locomotives
Waukesha, WI; Kalmbach Publishing, 1960.

A few of the Topics I'll be covering:

-Wood and Oil fired steamers
-Stokers
-Feedwater Heaters
-Ash Accumulation and Interactive Ash Pits???
-Booster Engines
-Power Reversers
-"Exotic" Steam engines (geared, artic, turbine etc)

Feel free to add to the list!

[Bill Hobbs]

From my standpoint, I need to look through my reference books and see if there is a single one that is still in print (a real problem with books on steam locos) that details the steam circuit in a concise form. If the books are too old, they use approximations of some of the important calculations (e.g. steam pressure in the cylinders) because they were written at a time when the calculations had to be done by hand.
But first we need to have reason to suppose that the new technology will be used to simulate this old technology....

[Macster]

>Bill,
>From what they have shown, it would appear that only the
>latest world objects will appear as scenery. One has to
>question just how a 1930's steam engine would look in this
>century's buildings and structures. Of course, you could say
>that it was a current fan run of a rebuilt engine.
>
>Bob Edwards

Hehe

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2388/1792759376_39fefe0e87_o.jpg

[kerrgg]

Sweet! Not 1 but 2

Hmm, anyone KRS users fancy counting those rivets?

Gary
"What would Long John Silver’s Parrot do?" ~The Parrot being the true brains of the operation.

[CaptainBazza]

Hi Bill, yes, that volume, and the one on diesels have been in my personal library for years and like you, I highly recommend both of them. I believe Rick had some tie-up with Kalmbach Publishing in the past, so I bet he too has them in his library.
Cheers Bazza

[Bill Hobbs]

If one has to choose just one of the readily available books on steam for the MSTS-X team, I think I would go with Ralph Johnson's The Steam Locomotive, available from www.transalert.com. It gives enough detail to assist in developing a simulation of the locomotive and was written in 1942 by the head of locomotive design at Baldwin Locomotive works. Here is a specific url reference:
http://www.transalert.com/cgi-bin/details.cgi?inv=BKSL&cat=19

I recommend this to anyone who really wants to get into the nuts and bolts of the modern steam locomotive. It also reminds one of what it had to be like to do complicated computations in the days before computers were there to do the hard work for us.

[prr4ever]

I have the 1930 and 1941 editions of Locomotive Cyclopedia (Kalmbach) Lot's of good stuff in those!!

Dave

[Bill Hobbs]

The RailDriver folks put out a 1922 Locomotive Cyclopedia on DVD that is a good reference tool as well. From a simulation of the steam circuit, however, it is not as useful. Itis a good review of the contemporary appliances overall arrangements.

Bill