Perfect # Switches

[Paddington bear]

Hi,
I have been reading the crys about #6,7,8,9,10......#25 switches and the apparent lack of RS to be able to deliver. Cant for the life of me understand what you are talking about. With the aid of 3 suitable objects as markers (Telegraph poles are good) you can create ANY # switch right where you want it.

First off, a base assumption on my part......you already have the "straight" track laid.

Step one. Determine the exact location where you want the frog to be, be it by fixing the lat/lon (to how ever many decimal places you desire) or any other method your happy with and go to that spot. Place a marker right beside the rail, on the inside, where you want the frog/diverging rail to go off from.

step two. Apply some basic maths....... my understanding is that for any # switch the definition simply means that at that many units along from the frog point (our first marker), away from the switch blades, the diverging rail will be one unit off too the side. So measure the # of units ( can be elephants , Tigers , light years or even inches , makes NO differance even though RS uses Metres. ) along the rail and place the second marker beside the rail on the inside.

Step Three. At this point measure 1 unit away from the track at right angles to the rail and place the 3rd marker.

step four. Totaly seperate on some level ground at the same hieght as the switch location, lay some straight track. Select the track your going to use for you diverging track and slip slide it around until it is crossing the original track and disecting the marker for the frog and the marker that is off to one side of the original track.

Step 5. Using the track splitting tool, split the diverging track as close as possible, but on the outside of , the original track. Delete the split off section of track that crosses the original track.

Step 6. Using the track laying tool, lay track from the newly created end of the diverging track, curving onto the original track line, turning the lines pink, to form the switch.

This will give you a perfect # (what ever you created) diverging straight track. From this you can lay up a ladder either parallel to the original track and every time one of these tracks disects the new diverging track you will once again have a perfect # (what ever you first created) or a ladder with tracks parallel to the new diverging track all will create perfect # (what ever you first created) where they disect the original track.

Sure there are a few draw backs to this method, the biggest one being that one cant just press the #6 key and have a # 6 turn out, but track laying was never easy. Lucky we dont have to use a pick and shovel and a crow bar and sledge hammer.

Any ways, this prcess gives me the perfect # (anything I want) switch/turnout/point every time and it does work on track that has all sorts of "grades". Story telling pictures would be good but thats another skill......

Ross

[sniper297]

Hee-hee, always wondered about that. Well, not bad, aside from the spastic track syndrome from the upgrade mark 1 "enhancement", but probably the best bet is to experiment with different radii and post a list of what makes what.

http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/attachment.php?attachmentid=1780&stc=1&d=1203819338

Using your marker method I find that a radius of 185 meters makes a #20 switch (assuming I have the markers correct, is that the distance from the base to the 1 meter point of diverge, or from the ends of the switchpoints to the frog? never did get that straight.). Knowing that (again assuming that's the correct measurement) every switch I make afterwards, if I want #20 I make the radius 185 meters and I get a #20 every time. Wanna get REAL persnickety, make one perfect switch and clone it, hold down the CTRL key and select both sections, CTRL C to copy to clipboard.

http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/attachment.php?attachmentid=1781&stc=1&d=1203819351

CTRL V to paste copies all over the landscape. Now use the Join tool (the only thing the Join tool is actually useful for) to connect the switches together.

http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/attachment.php?attachmentid=1782&stc=1&d=1203819367

Need to do each section, straight and curved, individually, but basically you click on the near end of the curve then the end of the track you want to join it to, then click on the loose straight section and again on the same track you just joined the curve to, makes a switch. To flip the curve, click on the opposite end and you get a left hand instead of right hand switch.

[Paddington bear]

Hi,
Sniper, the trouble with using the radius for so called "straight" switches is that the track in real life dosn't actually curve around all the way. The change in direction thru an arc is pretty much confined to the section of track along the switch blades to the frog and the section of track diverging from the frog onwards is straight. Admittidly a short straight for a parallel track

..........>....................> # of units going from the frog point away from the switch blades = # of switch
--------l---------------l-----
.....frog^point..............l
................................-l- always only one unit across at 90 deg. to the rail

Ross

[sniper297]

Well, that's probably why I never understood engineering, too much math makes my head hurt. Dave Nelson was trying to explain it to me a couple months back and I didn't get it then either. I get a drawing with dimensions on it I can try to make an unreasonable facsimile, but without an actual mechanical drawing I get lost. :o

[Paddington bear]

HI,

Sniper, Thats the end of my knowledge on this one.

Ross

[Railcoyote]

Well from my understanding of engineering (What i know of it) to give an example here is that usually the spacing between parallel tracks is say 5 meters. so that means if you are designing a #8 switch then the distance from Frog point A to Frog Point B is 40 meters long. (#20's would be 100 meters long for that same spacing.)

At least that's how I remember it..(but i could be wrong.)

RailCoyote--

[Paddington bear]

Hi,

RailCoyote, #8 = 8 units of anything along and 1 unit of the same thing across. In your example this holds true as your unit is in effect 5 metres. And for a #20 using your unit of 5 metres then yes 100 mtres along is 20 * your 5 metre unit. At the end of the day it is simply a ratio.

Ross

[Nscale1700]

I'm not sure if this will help, but in model railroading, the switch numbers refer to the length of the frog (the point where the diverging rails and straight rails meet in between the two switch paths.) A frog that is 8 times longer than it is wide is called a #8. So really, we're just playing with triangles here. In the World Editor, if you placed a small object (like a barrel) next to your track, lining up 12 in a row end-to-end, you could build a switch with a frog that is 12 barrels long and 1 barrel wide. Perfect #12; now just copy and paste the switch as if it were just a piece of panel track.

By the way, Ross and Sniper, great thinking on coming up with this method. I'm just hoping to clarify a little and get some fire burning under route builders.

[landnrailroader]

All of this is basically correct, except that in NorthAmerica, frogs are straight. Someone mentioned that the curved was basically between the points and the frog and this is correct. if we are making a crossover, then the length of track between the frog points is straight.
Curved frogs are common in Europe, and also on light rail lines in this country and there is no question that they provide a smoother track, but if I am going to the effort of making a route in whatever simulator, then the component parts must look, as well as operate, correctly.
I can probably get a AREA drawing of a turnout if someone wants to make them as 3rd party add-ons. All turnouts are basically the same except for the frog number. Only two other types would be required, a wye turnout, probably using a #5 or #6 frog, and a equilateral turnout, which is also a wye turnouit, but uses a #20 frog. Slip switches, as done in KRS, seem to me to be very representative of the type as already done in KRS.

If anyone wants to try to make a "fixed junction" let me know off list (jhsulliv@comcast.net) and I will see what I can find, and scan, in the way of a drawing.

landnrailroader

[sniper297]

Did some hunting thru old threads (brand new game and we got old threads already! :rolleyes: ) and found this;

http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/showthread.php?t=263978&page=3

Don't want to wade thru all that, here's Dave's drawing;

http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/showpost.php?p=1341044&postcount=23

My attempt to make straight frogs;

http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/showpost.php?p=1341080&postcount=30

And my preferred imprecise La-Z-Boy method of making yard ladders;

http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/showpost.php?p=1341056&postcount=28

One of the primary problems we trip over here is the distance benchmark is from the end of the points to the base of the frog, but the base of the switch starts where you place the ball (now a cube), and the distance from the base of the switch to the beginning of the points depends on the radius of the curve.

"If anyone wants to try to make a "fixed junction" let me know off list",

Like I say a fixed junction isn't really necessary here, if you can make ONE perfect junction in a route, you can copy and paste the track sections anywhere else in the route and use the join tool to snap them to the main track just like they were fixed sections.

First thing is to figure out and create one of each type, then make a list of what's needed. For example my post #30 link above, to recreate THAT switch exactly start a 100 meter radius curve 12 meters long, stop, lay a straight 10 meter section, stop, now you have a switch exactly the same as whatever number that one was. Want straight frogs break the switch into curved and straight sections, altho I'll be damned if I can actually see any difference.

[sniper297]

"Again? That trick NEVER works!" :rolleyes:

Well, pass the aspirin, think I'm at least (hee-hee) on the right track here.

http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/attachment.php?attachmentid=1806&stc=1&d=1203907149

With a 100 meter radius curve, the distance from the points to the frog is 15.31 meters, but that's not what we're looking for if I understand this correctly;

http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/attachment.php?attachmentid=1807&stc=1&d=1203907162

Using a section of US yard track since it has no bumpers :rolleyes: I lay a 1 meter long section, then slide that to the point where the inside of the left straight rail is exactly one meter from the inside of the left diverge rail.

http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/attachment.php?attachmentid=1808&stc=1&d=1203907172

Place some metal gates to extend the lines outside the ballast so I can use the measuring tool, the distance from the end of the points to the 1 meter difference point is 12.86 meters. Which makes this either a #12 or #13 switch, depending on how accurate this is supposed to be. Ignoring the curved frog for a moment, is this the way these are supposed to be measured?

[Paddington bear]

hi,
Nope.

Let me master this screen image taking thingy and post a few on the right track.
its all a learning curve and we all learning various things here so all is well with the community.

Ross

[sniper297]

Okay, Image Master, try this;

http://fly.to/mwgfx/

Download and install MultiGrab so you can run full screen and get multiple images. Really odd they didn't include a built in screencapture, first game I can remember in better than 10 years that didn't have one.

[Paddington bear]

Hi,

the suspence is killing me too

Ross