ARRRRGGGGGGGGGHH Bloody AI Pathing !!!

[OwainGlyndwr]

I want to go from Barstow to San Bernadino, right hand running all the way. So i put in every destination marker and siding marker on the right hand track, to keep me there.

2 miles down the flaming route, i still get put over to the left hand track and through part of Barstow Yard.

Is the dispatcher drunk or just plain stupid.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/IsambardKBrunel/RailSimEditor2008-04-2013-06-38-25.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/IsambardKBrunel/RailSimEditor2008-04-2013-06-49-60.jpg

Mike.

[august1929]

Mike - you need to take the easy path - on the WPFR from Orovile to Portola :)

I had another poke into RS again this morning, but left after 20 minutes, having failed to install a new scenario for Paddington Oxford and having completely wiped out the route (well made it not display) - it is good this - luckily I had backed up the contents folder.

Rod

[OTTODAD]

Hi Mike !

I have mentioned that before, AUTOMATIC switches unpredictably diverging in a path, you now too having problems with. :mad:

I think the only way to drive sensibly in RS is to create Free Roam scenarios, like Jim Ward does and after starting a service plot it's path for a far as it will let you, being able to throw all switches, Automatic as well as Manual.

They should make that path default for as far as there are tracks for it !

O t t o

[OwainGlyndwr]

I could solve the problem in 2 mins guys, by adding extra Destination Markers along the mainline. But then the scenario would need my modded route, when released to the general public. :)

RSDL say it is fine to upload modified routes, but then that could mean dozens of different versions of the Cajon route, needed for different creators scenarios. :(

Disagree on the Free Roam scenario theory sorry Otto. All the route needs is extra Markers, but done by RSDL, so they are default.

cheers,
Mike.

[OwainGlyndwr]

3x New Destination Markers added and now the damn train goes where i want it too. :D

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/IsambardKBrunel/RailSimEditor2008-04-2016-50-05-48.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/IsambardKBrunel/RailSimEditor2008-04-2016-57-01-25.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/IsambardKBrunel/RailSimEditor2008-04-2016-59-26-26.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/IsambardKBrunel/RailSimEditor2008-04-2017-08-32-90.jpg

But then for some reason i always get this, when running Westbound, even before adding the new markers. No other train on the route, but the player.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/IsambardKBrunel/RailSimEditor2008-04-2017-10-47-06.jpg

Mike.

[sniper297]

Well, several problems I see, first off you mispelled "ARRRRRRGGGGGGGGHH", should be six Rs and eight Gs. :D Second is your pics are too big, I got a 19 inch monitor and your 1600 (showoff!) pixels make me scroll back and forth to see everything. :mad:

Answer to the primary question, the dispatcher is both drunk AND stupid and further compounds the problem by punching out and going home before the scenario starts so no actual dispatching takes place during play. :rolleyes: Like Kurt Vonnegut's "PLAYER PIANO", it plays a preprogrammed tune that don't allow variations and quits if the paper roll isn't absolutely perfect. From my perspective that's the primary problem, with no actual intelligence in the artificial intelligence a train simulator should be designed to give the player control over dispatching while playing the game. This one took a step in the right direction with the 2D map so you can take off your engineers hat and put on the dispatcher's hat, set multiple switches for a path for the player service, then put the engineer's hat back on and run that path. But it didn't go nearly far enough, and went the wrong way with the automatic path generator. In real life "No plan survives first contact with the enemy", if it did you wouldn't NEED dispatchers to untangle traffic jams since every train would run perfectly according to the schedule every time.

Best fix, forget the markers, rewrite the whole thing so the scenario creator has DIRECT control over the path and the AI train goes exactly where specified, preferably by setting the path in a 2D map. Then give the player some way to change to dispatcher mode during play so he can alter the AI trains' path and schedules as needed.

For now, what I would suggest is to CLONE the route and make it into an entirely new route the way they did with Marias Pass 3.1 for MSTS. Many people wrote activities for Marias Pass 3.1 instead of the default Marias Pass for this very reason, the default wasn't designed for anything more than simplistic activities.

[OwainGlyndwr]

Track Markers work very well in TRS04 & 06, for directing AI.

The difference is they are saved as part of the scenario when added.

Uploading the modded route is not a problem for me, as it is the version i would use for scenario creation. But would other users be willing to download it, just to run a specific scenario or set of scenarios.

Sorry about the size, i can't help having a bigger one than you. :D

cheers,
Devils Advocate.

[Capt_Scarlet]

Track Markers work very well in TRS04 & 06, for directing AI.

The difference is they are saved as part of the scenario when added.

Uploading the modded route is not a problem for me, as it is the version i would use for scenario creation. But would other users be willing to download it, just to run a specific scenario or set of scenarios.

Sorry about the size, i can't help having a bigger one than you. :D

cheers,
Devils Advocate.

I would have thought that if you make it so that it's easier to get the ai to do what you wanted ( but not just for your scenarios ) and perhaps fix any other obvious mistakes to make it better than the original then it can only be a good thing.

I thought that in TRS the additions of trackmarks etc required the creation of a TSO ( Track Side Overlay for non TRS users) for the scenario to work and as such aren't included in the actual scenario file.

John

[OwainGlyndwr]

Beg your pardon CS, i meant in a Session.

I couldn't create a Scenario in TRS, with or without SCS to save my life. ;)

Mike.

[Capt_Scarlet]

Beg your pardon CS, i meant in a Session.

I couldn't create a Scenario in TRS, with or without SCS to save my life. ;)

Mike.

You don't have TRS2006 any more do you ? SCS2006 is much better and easier to use than the first version. They are working on a standalone pro version at the moment which is still in beta testing, I don't know when it will be out though as Mike ( thackalane ) keeps adding new functionality to it.

John

[tonyman2005]

remember the Cajon is modelled after the UP Side not BNSF. UP is Bass ackwards they run left handed. until you get to the natural crossover. the extra destination markers are the way to go though. to fix the left handed routing.

[OwainGlyndwr]

Yup i have tried SCS2006 John and it was too much for my addled brain. :)

Tony, i have tried the same with left handed running and the AI still behaves like an LSD victim. :D

cheers,
Mike.

[tonyman2005]

OwainGlyndwr

I have to agree with ya there. I guess they didn't think we'd want to run the whole route in one scenario and place ungodly amounts of traffic on the route too! I got so frustrated making my scenario i'm taking a break. i'mto the point now every time i place an AI train the scenario won't load.

RSDL is there a limit to the amount of AI trains you can place on a route?

I have all the trains headed to barstow on the same track seperated by signals and they all take the same path. and the same is true on trains leaving barstow. both directions will be on seperate tracks all the way thru the route so theres no head on conflict for them to not resolve!

[OwainGlyndwr]

Game is just not up to having more than just a minimum amount of AI ( as most of the default scenarios have ).

Anything more intricate than the simplest of pathing, throws the AI into panic.

Mike.

[Ibigoo]

I'd like to make a standard scenario on the Newcastle (Nc) - York route, but i have a little problem. I drive a short passenger train between Nc and Darlington, the train type is stopping passenger. At Durham - before the platforms - there is a little junction.
In every case, the train go left at the switch, and after go back to the mainline. There is no AI traffic or other rolling stock in the activity...erhm...scenario , only my train is on the rails. Why does the RS make that little, but annoying bypass? How can i make a path without any unnecessary turn?

Pictures about the situation:
http://href.hu/x/6h7w
http://href.hu/x/6h7x

Thanks for your help!

[OwainGlyndwr]

Place a loco or static train in the refuge siding and then your train will not be able to use that route.

What RSDL should have done was placed markers on those tracks ( the mainline and siding ) so that you could use them as drive via destinations, to choose your prefered path.

Mind you RSDL should have done a lot of things, but didn't.

Mike.

[Ibigoo]

Place a loco or static train in the refuge siding and then your train will not be able to use that route.

I'm thinking about to place a static train there, but according to the manual of the scenario making, a static train not blocking a section between two signals. All the same, i'll try it.

[OwainGlyndwr]

I did the same way back when RS was first released, it does work.

[Ibigoo]

I did the same way back when RS was first released, it does work.

It's not working. I place a static train on that track, but my path still the old one - but at now that blocked by the static train. The dispatcher (maybe the drunk one) not made a new path for me and i get a red signal.

[OwainGlyndwr]

Deffo works mate, make sure your player train is set up as passenger and not freight.

More than that i can't say sorry.

RS is not installed and hasn't been for nearly two months.

It won't be unless the whole mess is sorted out.

cheers,
OG.

[Ibigoo]

My train is a stopping passenger train...thanks to the answers

[Ibigoo]

I set the service class to special - it's the highest priority, isn't it? But i get the path across the junction instead of the direct one - again. Why? May i have an answer or an advice for example from the RSDL? Thank you!

[OwainGlyndwr]

If you set your player train to "Special", you will hinder the running of any AI that you have placed in the scenario.

Did you put a loco on the train i suggested placing in the siding. Trains without locos do not seem to be seen by the AI despatcher.

Give it a driver as well, but no other instructions.

All worth a go.

OG.

[boleyd]

I believe the docs confirmed that "loose consists" are not seen by signals and AI. We need a micro locomotive/engine that ia terribly small (few pixels) but carries a driver if that is needed. Then you have a siding blocker.:rolleyes: