Scenery

[OTTODAD]

Getting involved with the Assets Editor I started looking at what RS is capable of where creating scenery in scenarios is concerned.

So I used one of my flat terrain test routes and started painting terrain with much of what is available and find that all the options produce flat textures just like MSTS does and there is not a blade of grass visible sticking out of it.

Then I had a look at this Willow tree:

http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/attachment.php?attachmentid=4040&stc=1&d=1211756626

and this it Mike Sinclair's MSTS version:

http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/attachment.php?attachmentid=4041&stc=1&d=1211756626

I am tempting him to have a go at creating similar for RS, but without being able to use them in "Forests", planting them one after the other is not an option I would pursue ! :(

Then there is this:

http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/attachment.php?attachmentid=4042&stc=1&d=1211756626

How can I can create scenery like that in RS, which is supposed to have an up-to-date graphics engine which can make use of and display 3D objects, no flickering in their textures, nor bits and pieces of it changing or popping up before your very eyes as you get closer ? :o

There is no answer to that, I am sure and apart from tinkering with what RS is capable of in a limited way, helped by guys like James, Tom Boswell and a few others, there is nothing more I am planning to do with it, my CAJON-OTTO-MINOR copy of the B-SB having achieved most of what I want from RS ! :D

O t t o

[ENTrainman]

I suggest you go to the options and turn the graphics settings up to maximum?

Most of the grass textures have procedural grass on them, gravel and rock obiously do not... test out the different paint tools and the ways you can feather the textures off too.. this is something that MSTS deffinitly does not have :)

When it comes to trees.. the key is the "Far, Mid, Near" .... there are different levels of detail.

Near - High Quality, Tree foliage is 3d, and looks good from any view (even directly above) the stem is 3d as well as some branches. Take a look at the pine tree... or many of the others

Mid - Middle range, usualy This can differ between models... some are flat (such as the one you are looking at) , with decent resolution textures.. while otheres are a lower quality 3d version

Far - These go off in the distance , low resolution textures ect.

I will post some pictures tomorrow if i have time :)

[MikeSimpson]

Hi Otto,

I have no idea how you got your Willow Tree so flat, following is a grove of trees I have in my route and looks just as good / better than any in MSTS.

Mike

[tomkat41]

Hi Mike,

Your Willow tree isn't flat? Mines flat like Otto's I know it's for Mid and not near.
The route I'm making, there's a few Willow trees right next to the tracks and you
can see these trees follow you as you go by. Being that there for mid you really
wouldn't notice it but that's the only Willow trees they have so I have to use them
right next to the tracks. Hopefully somebody can make some of these. Another thing
is a lot of the trees are short the Oak trees the tree lines and others. I think the trees
should be alot bigger. RSDL has that new route and notice they have some big trees
I may have to buy it just to get the trees. I guess one could stack a tree on top of
a tree.

[ENTrainman]

Hi Mike,

Your Willow tree isn't flat? Mines flat like Otto's I know it's for Mid and not near.
The route I'm making, there's a few Willow trees right next to the tracks and you
can see these trees follow you as you go by. Being that there for mid you really
wouldn't notice it but that's the only Willow trees they have so I have to use them
right next to the tracks. Hopefully somebody can make some of these. Another thing
is a lot of the trees are short the Oak trees the tree lines and others. I think the trees
should be alot bigger. RSDL has that new route and notice they have some big trees
I may have to buy it just to get the trees. I guess one could stack a tree on top of
a tree.


Either there are 2 different willow trees in the program and Mike and myself are using 1... while you guys are using the other....... OR your guys graphics settings are not as high as ours?

LOL

[tomkat41]

Either there are 2 different willow trees in the program and Mike and myself are using 1... while you guys are using the other....... OR your guys graphics settings are not as high as ours?

LOL


My settings are maxed out. Mike Simpson's shot shows the tree straight on.
So if you want to "LOL" how about taking a screen shot of your Willow tree from
the top looking down so I can see it because there's only one Willow tree in
the list and that's for the mid range. :)

[OTTODAD]

These are my RS Options Graphical Detail settings:

http://www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/rsa/graphics-options.jpg (http://www.otto-wipfel.co.uk)

I have been advised to set the Terrain Texture to Medium to prevent distant mountains looking white !

Here is the only Willow available, I used while testing terrain and other scenery objects.

http://www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/rsa/willow-editor.jpg (http://www.otto-wipfel.co.uk)

http://www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/rsa/willow-drive.jpg (http://www.otto-wipfel.co.uk)

As for 3D grass terrain:
http://www.enchantedgoods.com/grasslands/index.html

here are more examples:
http://www.turbosquid.com/Search/Index.cfm/FuseAction/ProcessSearch/istSearchKey/Grass

Having mentioned flickering in the RS displays, here are 2 videos showing it, also one video showing how parts of a building are being added as you get closer. There is much of this going on and other objects are being re-drawn or pop up in front of the player:

www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/rs/rs-graphics.zip

This is a WIN-XP Home SP2, Intel Core 2 Duo E6700, 2 Gb RAM, 512Mb Radeon X1950XT PCI-Express sims only computer.

Can you see that too ?

O t t o

[ENTrainman]

My settings are maxed out. Mike Simpson's shot shows the tree straight on.
So if you want to "LOL" how about taking a screen shot of your Willow tree from
the top looking down so I can see it because there's only one Willow tree in
the list and that's for the mid range. :)

lose the attitude buddy. i honestly dont care if there is or isnt only 1 willow tree in this program... thats why it allows anyone to add content to it

I was mistaken it was the birch tree i was thinking about.... but thats not the point of the thread anyways.... the point was that the high quality trees (which there are a lot of in this program) do allow for much more realistic scenery

[ENTrainman]

These are my RS Options Graphical Detail settings:

http://www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/rsa/graphics-options.jpg (http://www.otto-wipfel.co.uk)

I have been advised to set the Terrain Texture to Medium to prevent distant mountains looking white !

Here is the only Willow available, I used while testing terrain and other scenery objects.

http://www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/rsa/willow-editor.jpg (http://www.otto-wipfel.co.uk)

http://www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/rsa/willow-drive.jpg (http://www.otto-wipfel.co.uk)

As for 3D grass terrain:
http://www.enchantedgoods.com/grasslands/index.html

here are more examples:
http://www.turbosquid.com/Search/Index.cfm/FuseAction/ProcessSearch/istSearchKey/Grass

Having mentioned flickering in the RS displays, here are 2 videos showing it, also one video showing how parts of a building are being added as you get closer. There is much of this going on and other objects are being re-drawn or pop up in front of the player:

www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/rs/rs-graphics.zip

This is a WIN-XP Home SP2, Intel Core 2 Duo E6700, 2 Gb RAM, 512Mb Radeon X1950XT PCI-Express sims only computer.

Can you see that too ?

O t t o


otto, i just looked at my GFX settings... i completely forgot about the "procedural flora" ... thats the one you want turned on for the grass

i was mistaken it was a birch tree that i was thinking about... i dont play around much with the decidous tress though ;)

anyways with regard to the flickering, i dont get any on my system... but in all fairness it isnt an average PC, probably towards the top percentile of RS users....

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4
2.5 GB DDR3 Ram
2 x 768MB 1.9GHz EVGA 8800 GTX in SLI
Raid 0 disk array
Asus P5N Deluxe
Creative Labs Sound Blaster X-FI Xtreme Gamer
24" Samsung LCD

Running 1920 x 1200, @ 16 samples all options maxed for RS and on top of that i have everything turned up to maxiumum in the Nvida advanced control panel as well...

so my results may not be the same

[tomkat41]

lose the attitude buddy. i honestly dont care if there is or isnt only 1 willow tree in this program... thats why it allows anyone to add content to it

I was mistaken it was the birch tree i was thinking about.... but thats not the point of the thread anyways.... the point was that the high quality trees (which there are a lot of in this program) do allow for much more realistic scenery

I didn't have an attitude, if I had an attitude the caps would've been turned on.
You started it by putting the "LOL" in like I didn't know what the hell I was talking
about. The next time make sure before you post. I'm not going to get into a
brawling match with you because one day I may need your help.

[OTTODAD]

I completely forgot about the "procedural flora" ... thats the one you want turned on for the grass.

I got that turned off because I do not want to see it appear where it is not wanted, like in a trackbed tie or rail and can do without it moving about ! ;)

I was mistaken, it was a birch tree that I was thinking about.

Seems that I found the only tree which is not 3D, all the others being perfect ! :)

O t t o

[MikeSimpson]

Actually that Willow tree is a strange model. If you view it from above it is flat, but go down to ground level and move the camera around it a full 360 degrees. The shape follows the camera so it always looks 3D as you travel around it.

Looks like someone has been doing some clever modelling with it.

And as this is a Rail simulator, not a Flight simulator, it is probably assumed that most views of the tree will be from the train, not down on the top of it.

Mike

[keber]

I got that turned off because I do not want to see it appear where it is not wanted, like in a trackbed tie or rail and can do without it moving about ! ;)

Actually clever choosing terrain textures can make difference. Under the track (or similar) you just paint with terrain textures, that don't use procedural flora.

Someone from rail-sim.de will soon make available such kind of flora:
http://members.upc.nl/s.derks/railsim/Railsim202.JPG

http://members.upc.nl/s.derks/railsim/railsim221.JPG

[RSderek]

Hi,

A few trees use the forward facing shader, there are 2 versions of this shader, viewer facing, that always faces the camera, and the near trees use this shader. The second shader is forward facing but is restricted in the vertical, so if viewed from above it appears flat.

Once the new route is out the way I will create a how to doc and a tutorial on how I created some of the models and textures.

regards

Derek

[NorthernWarrior]

No matter how much quality vegetation is produced for RS - the inherent problem remains... They all have to be placed and rotated individually. No forest objects like we had in MSTS, no splined vegetation (like some of the superb JVC collection) that can follow terrain as in TRS and not least that if you do manage to put together a good looking "clump" the RS copy and paste function is exceedingly primitive. You can't filter items you don't want (so a select operation near track will pick up everything, not just the veg). You can't rotate the copied items before placement to randomise nor do they snap to terrain on placement. They need to be selected again and snapped then rotated but with the same problem that you can't filter the objects so if you're not careful you end up with track, water decals and goodness knows what else disturbed.

Now the approach might be okay for a short 10 mile route but if you want to populate a long route, IMHO the current system just involves too much workload. In TRS, you can elect to copy the terrain texture along with the trees, they can be rotated through 90, 180 or 270 degrees before placement, they will snap to the terrain and remain selected so you can apply that extra little "tap" to root them in the ground.

[OTTODAD]

You can elect to copy the terrain texture along with the trees, they can be rotated through 90, 180 or 270 degrees before placement, they will snap to the terrain and remain selected so you can apply that extra little "tap" to root them in the ground.

That comes close to what I was dreaming about ! ;)

Draw the perimeter of an area, giving it whatever shape, anchoring it's perimeter line here and there, like I remember doing in CadCam many years ago and then fill it with whatever, single or mixed objects, deciding the density of each when selecting them and then plant the lot on to the terrain, each object snapping to the terrain like in MSTS Forests.

O t t o

[OTTODAD]

Someone from rail-sim.de will soon make available such kind of flora

Now that is a step in the right direction, but will still require a lot of work planting them individually to make sure they snap to uneven terrain.

O t t o