Being Able to see coal raise

[BNSF5767]

I want to see the coal raise to the top of a hopper if you put it under a chute, and see some kind of dust, maybe have keyboard commands for coal/grain chute opening filling the hoppers. Maybe that would work if there isn't going to be any loading

[Vince]

I want to see the coal raise to the top of a hopper .....grain, dust clouds ect. .....

As the calculation and display of each lump of coal (or grain of wheat or particle of dust for that matter) will take considerable computer power to process and display, just what kind of system do you think, horsepower wise, would it take to hang all this overhead on?
Maybe hang so much visual candy on that the new sim would be useful only for making pretty screen shots? I hope NOT! :eek:

Ever try filling a yard in MSTS with loose consists? Right! Now you get the idea. :rolleyes:

Would it not be better to adjust the physics of a car as it is loaded be enough? :cool:

[Turbo Bill]

I agree, this sim is going to need computing power without the wayoutthere eye candy. If they give us realistic physics with an improvement over the present MSTS eye candy, I'm happy. One thing you need to realize. In all my 10 years of running trains on a busy railroad, I hardly ever, other then the Rock Train, see a car unloaded or loaded. They don't call us to move cars unless their done with them. The most I've ever seen is the customer/company dude close the bottom chute on the odd hopper car of corn so we could get to the cars behind it. Working the Rock Train, I've had to watch them load the aggregate into the hoppers. After the first couple times it's as exciting as watching the grass grow in July. I'd rather see the computing efforts go to accurate train physics, cabs, rollinsgstock and believable track, bridges and terrain. The rest is just a waste of computer memory and processing.

[3Directions]

just what kind of system do you think, horsepower wise, would it take to hang all this overhead on?



Nehalem & Larrabee :D:D

[Driverman2008]

Well MSTS 1 had coal loading for steam locomotives. So I would imagine that would return.:rolleyes:

[NorfolkSouthern_37]

As the calculation and display of each lump of coal (or grain of wheat or particle of dust for that matter) will take considerable computer power to process and display, just what kind of system do you think, horsepower wise, would it take to hang all this overhead on?
Maybe hang so much visual candy on that the new sim would be useful only for making pretty screen shots? I hope NOT! :eek:

Ever try filling a yard in MSTS with loose consists? Right! Now you get the idea. :rolleyes:

Would it not be better to adjust the physics of a car as it is loaded be enough? :cool:

its the way you are thinking of it that would be near impossible. the overall effect could be easily pulled off with particle emitters and well animated coal loads. such effects are not as cpu intensive as you think.

the developers have already stated that now it will be feasible to place many loose consists and fill the yards to be more like the real thing. do not underestimate.

[Company Notch]

I want to see the coal raise to the top of a hopper if you put it under a chute, and see some kind of dust, maybe have keyboard commands for coal/grain chute opening filling the hoppers. Maybe that would work if there isn't going to be any loading

Priorities, priorities, priorities - would you rather have this than the worlds rail network, a robust physics system, an extensible track network, and a flexible signal system?

What you describe is a significant amount of work. Not that it wouldn't be cool, but the question is, how badly do you want it? That's why it was ranked relatively low in the overall design of the product for this version.

-Rick

Rick Selby
Lead Game Designer
Microsoft Train Simulator

http://yardlimits.spaces.live.com

[261Steam]

I will agree with the designers!

You guys are asking WAY TOO MUCH!!

The game isn't Real Life ITS A GAME so stop asking for more and just be happy with what we are getting.

Brandon

[eaglefan9727]

I will agree with the designers!

You guys are asking WAY TOO MUCH!!

The game isn't Real Life ITS A GAME so stop asking for more and just be happy with what we are getting.

Brandon

You took the words right out of my mouth. I want them to get the sim correct before they go into all these little details and so forth.

[BNSF5767]

You took the words right out of my mouth. I want them to get the sim correct before they go into all these little details and so forth.


I'm just wondering why we can't load cars like Trainz software can

[Company Notch]

I'm just wondering why we can't load cars like Trainz software can

For the same reason other products don't ship the entire planet of track. It was a product design decision around how to best use our finite developer resources for this version of the product.

In an ideal world, we'd have it. But with about a year to go, our plates are full at this point.

-Rick

Rick Selby
Lead Game Designer
Microsoft Train Simulator

http://yardlimits.spaces.live.com

[jamesc25313]

As the calculation and display of each lump of coal (or grain of wheat or particle of dust for that matter) :


Do you think one lump at a time falls out? At the very least, you should be able to see a empty hopper become full even without the effect of seeing it get loaded as you say one particle at a time, as you put it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KADZPiFs-E

[Portergraphic]

We totally appreciate the ideas and enthusiasm.
There are many things that we wanted to get in there that we just can't get to in this first release.

You can be sure that we have a laundry list of things that we want to get done to enhance the experience of the users, but we have to do the foundational work first.

Once we get the critical things right, we can focus on the eyecandy.

[NW_611]

Sounds like y'all have the right focus. I'd rather have a railroad simulator than a bulk commodities loading simulator, anyways. Besides, the real thing to ask is, "How many tracks 'round Horseshoe Curve?"

[beatle]

Besides, the real thing to ask is, "How many tracks 'round Horseshoe Curve?"

I believe the answer to that would be, "How many tracks does it have right now" :->

Tim
http://beatlesblog.spaces.live.com

[ozinoz]

I believe the answer to that would be, "How many tracks does it have right now" :->

Tim
http://beatlesblog.spaces.live.com

THE perfect answer - well done :)

[tlittle]

For the same reason other products don't ship the entire planet of track. It was a product design decision around how to best use our finite developer resources for this version of the product.

In an ideal world, we'd have it. But with about a year to go, our plates are full at this point.

-Rick

Rick Selby
Lead Game Designer
Microsoft Train Simulator

http://yardlimits.spaces.live.com

Rick and all,

You've made the right decisions! World tracks and correct/realistic physics as well as open architecture (i.e. simconnect) will make the masses very happy on this release..

Those details of seeing things loaded would be nice, sure - but not that important in the overall picture.

If we had a choice, I think we would rather see AI trains able to couple and do realisic yard ops rather than coal poured into a car? But we understand that we may not even see that on initial release.

[jamesc25313]

I really dont see what having the ability to have a AI train couple have to do with the ability to see coal being loaded into a hopper. I see it as no different than the ability to see containers being loaded ect. Besides if that small option is going to put such a damper on the sim then wouldnt it be that if your computer couldnt handle such a powerful animation such as a black dust cloud *sarcasim* then that would be reflected in your game settings, thus youd never see the coal being loaded in the first place and the people who can run the sim smoothly can watch-away, or like others say, have an off option in the settings screen.

If you dont have options or at least the abilty, then some where down the line youre going to see people complaining about how simple things such as not being able to see coal being loaded takes away from the sim. Say what you want but I want to have fun and feel like Im on the railroad. If I wanted to be %100 accurate Id go get a job on the railroad.

[Portergraphic]

James,
There are two or three seperate issues here.
1. The animation: Every animation that we add to the vehicle bloats the file size, and therefore the budget in sim for that piece of rolling stock.
2. The FX: Because the FX add additional draw calls and also alpha blends into the scene, the scene complexity increases, therefore causing a slow down.
3. The Developers Time: This is the most critical. We could get this in there, no problem. The problem is because we have a finite schedule, something else would drop off the list.

The things we have decided to do are for a very good reason. The things we aren't doing is because it isn't as critical.

I would rather get the animations that are critical to getting the rolling stock looking correct in there than to have a level of coal move up and a particle emitter cluttering up the scene complexity.

The foundations for that behaviour will be in there, but the work for the artists and developers will be focused on the most important items on the list first.

Thanks for understanding.

[Hack]

Mike - is this something 3rd-party developers can accomplish using SimConnect?

[stonelance]

I don't think you can control scenery object animation through SimConnect, and I don't think we know yet exactly what SimObject variables will be exposed thorugh SimConnect. It might be possible to make the refueling station a SimObject, and animate it that way, but i'm not sure.

[jamesc25313]

James,

The foundations for that behaviour will be in there, but the work for the artists and developers will be focused on the most important items on the list first.


Thats what I was getting at. I wasnt exactly saying it had to be in there now, but the option for it to be added later should be there. Im not hard to please :) I just found it funny that I use to read people saying they wish they could see trains being loaded or people getting on passenger trains and now this gets brought up and it seemed to be a ludacris idea and lets skip it altogether, not by you guys but by the community and like you said 'the behaviour will be there' so Im happy :)