What Are Some Things We Could Work On?

[jamesc25313]

Ive noticed the buzz around here has died down a bit, especially with a lot of people waiting for the new update to be released including myself, but it leaves me wondering what are some things that can be worked on until that time that needs a face lift or upgrade? I know it would be safe to say just wait until the patch and then worry about it but there are a few people who have been around since day one and I havent went anywhere but just ran out of ideas. Myself, I can work on sounds and basic textures such as building, rail cars ect. in game graphics but if collectively we put some ideas out there maybe someone will say "hey I can do that" or at least try. Id like to see a few more ideas thrown out there, besides rolling stock youd like to see, because if I could trust me Id be making it. Things that are possible to achieve or even a slight change can make a world of difference. GBSD70Ace, came up with transparent compass and I thought that was genius although simple, which most genius ideas are just that.

So, any ideas?

[tonyman2005]

The buzz has died down a bit because it seems like RSDL has abandoned the US customers. Everything they produce is for the Europe market. And they stopped work on the 2nd upgrade to make a payware add-on again focusing on the Europe market. I know they are a business and have to make money to stay afloat, But the things they have done in the first upgrade and hopefully are doing in the 2nd one should have been done before Kuju released the sim. (ok end of my rant)

some of us are building routes. and using the same buildings over and over gets old fast. so maybe some re-skins of different buildings.

some guys are re-skinning US freight cars. we really need more of that.
Some guys are re-skinning US locos. again we need more of that.
Some guys are trying to model new locos we need more of that.

what else is needed? we need more types of US freight cars and passenger cars. ie, center beam cars, flatcars, spine cars, etc etc. I'm not much of a modeler but I'd think it would be a little easier to make cars then locos right now.

we need US style Lofts (Bridges)

we also need different US types of roadways. so maybe some reskinning could be done there.

we also need easier to understand documents that beginners can understand so if they want to start making content for this sim they don't have such a huge learning curve. the list of what needs to be done is really endless but hopefully more ppl will chime in here and add to the list I've started.

We also have to remember we all have a common goal to make this sim the best it can be! we all need to work with each other to get stuff done. right now this sim is on life support. we are keeping it alive with everything that has been done so far. But there is alot more work to be done. then maybe we'll start drawing the die hard MSTS lovers away from that out dated program. (they forget just how bad MSTS was when it first came out.)

[jamesc25313]

There isnt that much rolling stock ( US ) to begin with. The covered hoppers have been painted so many times, it would be nice to see some new rolling stock made. The reskinning of building is a great idea, its easy to do and means more variety. Ive never done that and have no idea where to get resourses but Id like to try. Thats a simple yet can add some freshness and help route developers out. I will look into that one myself but if anyone has any tips please let me know.

The road textures should be fairly simple to do.

I'm not much of a modeler but I'd think it would be a little easier to make cars then locos right now.

I agree with this %100 get some different rail cars in here. If I could model some I would. Wecan live off what engines we have for now but we need some new frieght like YOur typical 100 ton hopper, basic stuff nothing particular to one railroad. Universal.

I think if we get a few more rail cars in here and some new buildings to givethe route developers something to work with then we'd have new routes and encourage the modelers to create engines ect. Right now its ata stalemate and everyone is waiting on everyone.

[RSDLadam]

Hi Guys,

We are sorry about the lack of US content, and can confirm that it is ever present in our minds that Rail Simulator is lacking heavily on the US content front.

However there is a very valid reason for this - We're in the UK, 3000 miles away. The sheer cost of travelling the US and the logistics of arranging access to perform research and collate accurate information to model rolling stock and routes, prohibits its product at the moment. I am pretty sure any US 3rd party would say EXACTLY the same if people requested they produce some highly accurate European content.

If there are users who are willing to help us out on this front, we would get stuck into US content at the drop of a hat. The simple fact is we dont have any access to material that would make it possible to prodce US content in any large volume.


Regards to the continued jabbing over the Isle of Wight release - Upgrade Mk2 was started well before the Isle of Wight went into production. The only element that caused delay was testing of the addon before its release. Due to the limited resources at RSDL, we could not efficiently test and release the Addon while still maintaining work on Mk2. Thus being a business, profit earning work came first. That is fact of life.


Finally, what is it that people believe is hampering the development of content for Rail Simulator before the release of Mk2? I think I have asked this question many times as users continue to highlight statements like this on here. As you may have seen, several commercial addons have now been released, and multitides of freeware content is now available, and all being developed before Mk2. Considering it takes several months to now produce highly detailed and indepth content, there should be no reason why pure development is delayed. If it is things such as dynamic braking they I can understand as this IS fixed with the installation of Upgrade Mk2, but surely this would only delay release of content, not its entire development.

[jamesc25313]

If there are users who are willing to help us out on this front, we would get stuck into US content at the drop of a hat. The simple fact is we dont have any access to material that would make it possible to prodce US content in any large volume.



Hi. Someone should take you guys up on that.

I dont know how these guys do it butcome up with rail cars just by blueprints or information off the internet. I actually made a coal hopper (Half way) in 3Dsmax once and I only doing it for about 3 days. Even if it was a blank model with no skin and we could texture it ourselves. I dont know if thats possible for you guys to make a model and just put it out there for people to repaint but right now Id go for anything.

As far as the MK2 update Im assuming the dynamics will be fixed so I look past all that.

As you may have seen, several commercial addons have now been released, and multitides of freeware content is now available, and all being developed before Mk2.

I havent seen any US 3rd party stuff and most freeware for US Im guessing would be repaints? Im not trying to point fingers, thats been done enough. Now its time we see whos going to do what. Im tired of seeing 3 bay hoppers getting repainted over and over. Which leads me to my original point. What can we do? All I can do is try and be part of the solution instead of the problem.

[RSDLadam]

Hiya,

I think the question should instead be - What do you want to do?

[jamesc25313]

Hiya,

I think the question should instead be - What do you want to do?

NO! :) If I ask that then we'll never get anything done :) Id like to find out what everyone wants to see be done ( that is pratical and achievable ) and not so much griping and pointing fingers. So, I have to say youre right. What do you want to do, but unfortunatley Im afraid it would turn into a lot of nothing. More or less Im calling out the people who can do something or want to try and not so much the people who would like to gripe about what they want or want to see.

[Basherz]

Whatever happened to SporBust - now he was a great US content creator?

[tomkat41]

I would like to see some cantilevers and a small program that allows to edit the
animation of the flashing lights. A CSX sd40-2, wooden type planks at rail crossings,
different car spawners (nothing we can do about that) taller trees with overhanging
branches.

Adam, I thought you guys were coming out with a documentation for the MK2?
I hope other things got fixed besides the dynamic brakes.

[RSDLadam]

Hi Tom,

With regard to the caw spawning, what is it that you want to be different? In Rail Simulator there are no car spawners. Cars simple 'populate' the roads rather than having to author points for them to originate from.

Roads are either set to have traffic or not. Roads with traffic, can have what ever traffic you wish them to have*. Roads without traffic simply stay empty.


*This is only if you are creating your own roads rather than using those already in Rail Simulator.

[Hack]

Adam, I thought you guys were coming out with a documentation for the MK2?
I believe it was mentioned that info regarding what's been worked on in the MkII upgrade will come shortly before release. From what I understand, the update is locked and is in final testing.

[jamesc25313]

Im working on repainting a few default buildings. When I say repaint I mean change the color of industrial buildings or add a sign to the side of it or logo or something like that, but maybe some specific building that would like to be repainted would help me better.

[Bill Hobbs]

One important thing we will need for US steam is working air-brakes. I thought the Invincible would show me how to make them work, but it ended up with vacuum brake settings.
The only US steam to use vacuum brakes was some 19th century equipment and some of the Maine 2 ft equipment.
Please show us how to make it work. In the interim, I've gone back to making new steam sounds for MSTS and working on my layout. The sounds could easily be adapted for KRS when there is a loco that needs them.

Bill Hobbs

[jamesc25313]

Hi. Heres a few trailers I painted up real quick.

http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/attachment.php?attachmentid=5703&stc=1&d=1218465698

http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/attachment.php?attachmentid=5704&stc=1&d=1218465698

http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/attachment.php?attachmentid=5705&stc=1&d=1218465698

[RSDLadam]

One important thing we will need for US steam is working air-brakes. I thought the Invincible would show me how to make them work, but it ended up with vacuum brake settings.
Bill Hobbs
Hi Bill,

Brake system upgrades and enhancements to the AI Dispatcher are currently in planning for the bulk of whats to be included in Upgrade Mk3. The only confirmation we can give about Mk3 is that we will do everythin in our power to prevent it being 6 months before it comes out, like Mk2 has taken.

[wildh0rse]

hi. Heres a few trailers i painted up real quick.


nice work!

[tomkat41]

Hi Tom,

With regard to the caw spawning, what is it that you want to be different? In Rail Simulator there are no car spawners. Cars simple 'populate' the roads rather than having to author points for them to originate from.

Roads are either set to have traffic or not. Roads with traffic, can have what ever traffic you wish them to have*. Roads without traffic simply stay empty.


*This is only if you are creating your own roads rather than using those already in Rail Simulator.

The roads for traffic are the car spawners (the road itself is the spawner) if I lay down a
long road a car spawns three different places on that same road. If you make a mistake
and want to put a turn and split the road and try again the cars will disappear and respawn
on the next section. I like the type car spawners that are in MSTS, just lay down the
road, get a car spawner and start it from one end and go to the other end and can be set
to have traffic flow like in Europe or US and and set speed limits and spawning time.
I'm just going to take out the traffic, watching cars appearing and disappearing every few
meters is driving me nuts.

[Bill Hobbs]

Adam said:
Brake system upgrades and enhancements to the AI Dispatcher are currently in planning for the bulk of whats to be included in Upgrade Mk3. The only confirmation we can give about Mk3 is that we will do everythin in our power to prevent it being 6 months before it comes out, like Mk2 has taken.

Adam,
I'm glad to find out that it wasn't just me being dense.
Bill

[RSDLadam]

Hi Tom,

Cheers for the feedback. Its a bit more difficult for us to enhance, if the issue is that someone doesnt like our entire implementaiton of road traffic. We do know several areas of road traffic functionality that needs improving so we can only continue down completing these improvements and hope that you like them.

[Kristian]

We also have to remember we all have a common goal to make this sim the best it can be! we all need to work with each other to get stuff done. right now this sim is on life support. we are keeping it alive with everything that has been done so far. But there is alot more work to be done. then maybe we'll start drawing the die hard MSTS lovers away from that out dated program. (they forget just how bad MSTS was when it first came out.)

One of the problems is, that there is competition of msts2, let us not forget that.
The developers of msts2 add now and then stuff about its development status, to keep the buzz going; they have to, as its release is at least a year away which is a long time. The expectations are high for msts2, but it is still a promise so far (FS2004 turned out to be a better sim than FS-X, I read somewhere).
I'm sure most of the users that have RS, will also be interested in msts-2 (at some point).
The point is that some (or most?) add-on developers of msts are waiting for msts-2. The guy that developed Northeast Corridor for msts is one of them I presume, and when msts-2 is released, or perhaps if Aces studio decides at some point to pre-release a route editor or something like that, just a wild speculation, will that have effect on addon development by the community currently supporting freeware for RS? Will there be msts-2 and RS developers united in one person?
Personally I like this sim and think that two complementary train sims in the future can be interesting.

[tonyman2005]

jamesc25313 nice work on mobile homes.

Adam, my comment wasn't a jab at you or anyone at RSDL. as a partner in a small business i completely understand why you guys put the mk2 upgrade on hold long enough to get the new add-on out. it takes money to keep working on the products.

and i understand that living across the pond from the US its not fesiable to jump on a plane and come to the US and do research. Most US content makers get their info from the internet.

I think Most content creators are waiting to see what gets fixed in the mk2 upgrade before deciding whether or not to put the effort into making content for this sim. And some creators don't want to learn how to model content for new sims also. But then you have guys like me that haven't done 3d modeling in about 14 years and is really a complete beginner and reading the docs makes it seem like you have to be a rocket scientist just to create a simple object for the sim.

"I think the question should instead be - What do you want to do?"

I am trying my hand at route building. im off to a good start and learning as i go. And i'm also going to try and model objects for the route i'm building. which is going to delay the release of the route Because i'm going to have to reteach myself how to produce 3d models.

Most of the US content is freeware and is just reskins of the default US content. But you can only reskin the same rolling stock so many times before the masses start saying Hey where is the new stuff?


@Basherz

the last i heard SporBust was trying to settle into a new job and hasn't been doing much modeling and the projects that he has been working on when he has time is for trainz again.

[tomkat41]

Hi Tom,

Cheers for the feedback. Its a bit more difficult for us to enhance, if the issue is that someone doesnt like our entire implementaiton of road traffic. We do know several areas of road traffic functionality that needs improving so we can only continue down completing these improvements and hope that you like them.

Hi Adam,

Sounds good, thanks.

[nwman]

I thank we could use some more us tunnels. I know I'm going to need some for the Pocahontas route I'm working on. Just a idea. Thanks nwman.

[jamesc25313]

I thank we could use some more us tunnels. I know I'm going to need some for the Pocahontas route I'm working on. Just a idea. Thanks nwman.

Thats a particular route Im looking forward to BUT all I can do is repaint existing stuff. I can only paint a trailer so many times. I can paint trucks other colors besides white but overall this may help you notice that you dont see the same color truck over and over but you still see the same truck.

[marr5]

i think to start out we need some new buildings and/or rail cars. right now im working on retexturing scenery and making a new us style route.

[rjdiii]

Hi Guys,
<snip>
Finally, what is it that people believe is hampering the development of content for Rail Simulator before the release of Mk2?
<snip>

Putting on flame retardant suit, OK,

<soapbox>

I think that depends on what Mk2 "fixes".

And I do mean fixes not enhancements (except as noted), what is diminishing (my perspective only) with only Mk1

1) Major latitude crossing crashes
2) signal behavior
3) SRTMs only - well this may be an enhancement but SRTMs just plain suck in mountains.
4) Dynamic brakes - and air brakes for that matter (do European brakes really react/recover that quickly?)
5) No car slack
6) Headlights - and ditch lights
7) EoT markers - that would be FREDs (and feedback in the loco cabs from them would be a great enhancement) (heck the speedo doesn't even work in the ES44)
8) The smoke doesn't work in the new style ES44 - OK, granted that's a nit.
9) the ability to change the start location in the world editor. I changed it in the route blueprint and exported it all successfully. Guess what, still starts in the same location, which happens to be almost 50 miles from the nearest place of interest because I fubar'd my first route blueprint. Then I added a hundred miles of track before coming to this mile long chasm in the mountains because of #3. Actually my little fubar ended up creating more than 32,000 tiles before I got to where I wanted to be - to start. But I had an interesting time learning creating lake Tahoe. Which reminds me,
10) There are no blues in the paint tool (for lake/ocean bottoms) and no coal (blacks) either. Would that be an enhancement?
11) I never could get route markers to show up - it would be nice to know what where in the game means they would show. This business of this file relating to that file dependent on another file which is related to another file which theoretically automagically gets it's inputs from who know where is just plain cumbersome without some tools that will take plain old ascii text files and do all this automagic. No unicode, no xml, no excel, no blueprint forms that export successfully (whatever that means) but do nothing. Which reminds me,
12) In number 9. being my first route I dutifully picked "the" default ground cover instead of the US default ground cover and now I can't figure out how to change it. Changed it in the route blueprint - nada.
13) Please make the weather go away in the world editor - it's REALLY annoying.
14) Enhancement, maybe, but basic to me it, is to be able to see clearly, at least, at least, 5 Kilometers, clearly! in any direction from the camera including all the objects/assets in that range. I do not care in the least what type of computer or graphics would be required, that's what the settings are for. 1 should maybe be for a 486 and 10 maybe for a 10 GHz quadcore whatever with SLI/crossfire whatever graphics. If a Q9560/9800GTX whatever combo can only get to 6 or 7 so be it. At least there is a future path. This asset/object popping in and out at one or two kilometers is as annoying here as it was with MSTS.

MSTS was a massively buggy royal PITA - 7 years ago! Regardless of what behind the scenes changes y'all made, that reference point, with fixes to its "bugs" should have been your minimum starting point, not a goal. I really think that is all folks were looking for; and expected.

<soapbox/>

Richard

[jamesc25313]

Theyre plenty of threads to voice youre opposition or dislike for Rail Simulator or the progress or lack of the MK2 update. This thread has gone completely off topic and never was on topic. It just goes to proove that most would rather point fingers instead of trying to think of ways to get something done.

1) Major latitude crossing crashes
2) signal behavior
3) SRTMs only - well this may be an enhancement but SRTMs just plain suck in mountains.
4) Dynamic brakes - and air brakes for that matter (do European brakes really react/recover that quickly?)
5) No car slack
6) Headlights - and ditch lights
7) EoT markers - that would be FREDs (and feedback in the loco cabs from them would be a great enhancement) (heck the speedo doesn't even work in the ES44)
8) The smoke doesn't work in the new style ES44 - OK, granted that's a nit.
9) the ability to change the start location in the world editor. I changed it in the route blueprint and exported it all successfully. Guess what, still starts in the same location, which happens to be almost 50 miles from the nearest place of interest because I fubar'd my first route blueprint. Then I added a hundred miles of track before coming to this mile long chasm in the mountains because of #3. Actually my little fubar ended up creating more than 32,000 tiles before I got to where I wanted to be - to start. But I had an interesting time learning creating lake Tahoe. Which reminds me,
10) There are no blues in the paint tool (for lake/ocean bottoms) and no coal (blacks) either. Would that be an enhancement?
11) I never could get route markers to show up - it would be nice to know what where in the game means they would show. This business of this file relating to that file dependent on another file which is related to another file which theoretically automagically gets it's inputs from who know where is just plain cumbersome without some tools that will take plain old ascii text files and do all this automagic. No unicode, no xml, no excel, no blueprint forms that export successfully (whatever that means) but do nothing. Which reminds me,
12) In number 9. being my first route I dutifully picked "the" default ground cover instead of the US default ground cover and now I can't figure out how to change it. Changed it in the route blueprint - nada.
13) Please make the weather go away in the world editor - it's REALLY annoying.
14) Enhancement, maybe, but basic to me it, is to be able to see clearly, at least, at least, 5 Kilometers, clearly! in any direction from the camera including all the objects/assets in that range. I do not care in the least what type of computer or graphics would be required, that's what the settings are for. 1 should maybe be for a 486 and 10 maybe for a 10 GHz quadcore whatever with SLI/crossfire whatever graphics. If a Q9560/9800GTX whatever combo can only get to 6 or 7 so be it. At least there is a future path. This asset/object popping in and out at one or two kilometers is as annoying here as it was with MSTS.


rjdiii, we are very aware of these problems and Im sure RSDL is so why bring them up for the 100th time? This is the very example of people I didnt want posting in this particular thread. These kind of people just drop by to keep the fire burning and gets everyone off track so to speak. Post after post has been poeple pointing out obivious flaws in the game that have been talked about countless times and most are things we (the community) cant do much about. This thread should be closed.

[rjdiii]

rjdiii, we are very aware of these problems and Im sure RSDL is so why bring them up for the 100th time? This is the very example of people I didnt want posting in this particular thread. These kind of people just drop by to keep the fire burning and gets everyone off track so to speak. Post after post has been poeple pointing out obivious flaws in the game that have been talked about countless times and most are things we (the community) cant do much about. This thread should be closed.

The answer was in response to a question by RSDL as quoted, not the Community.

If RSDL is so aware of these problems then it is disingenuous of them to keep asking what is holding back NA content producers. They have the answer. If they're not going to fix that list of things that has been brought up a hundred times at least have the honesty to say so. Because right now that's what NA content producers are thinking and that is why they are sticking to MSTS and waiting for TS2. It's like RSDL already has their answer but we haven't asked the question that leads to that answer.

[jamesc25313]

Although he did ask what is holding us back and your response is the typical. I think his deeper point is what is keeping us from creating content ourselves. I cannot creat custom content so I cant answer that. We can probably rest assure that dynamics and few other things on your list will be fixed when the latest update is out. I dont thik anyone would deny that at the very least the basics will be fixed such as dynamics and hopefully the screend in the ES44 just to name a few. Although we know this then why isnt anyone creating anything? Everyone is fighting against each other and playing the blame game doesnt get content created thus no routes being built and so no need for new engines and rolling stock.

If these guys are so mad over content not being created then why not make it yourself or shut up about it? If you dont have anything good to say dont say it at all. This update is past due, big deal, and when it does come out, there will be a whole host of new things to gripe about. We dont even want to start on MSTS and how dead in the water it was.

If RSDL is so aware of these problems then it is disingenuous of them to keep asking what is holding back NA content producers.

Ok, lets see what youre idea of whats holding content creation up is.

7) EoT markers - that would be FREDs (and feedback in the loco cabs from them would be a great enhancement) (heck the speedo doesn't even work in the ES44)

That just ruins the game for me.

13) Please make the weather go away in the world editor - it's REALLY annoying.
14) Enhancement, maybe, but basic to me it, is to be able to see clearly, at least, at least, 5 Kilometers, clearly! in any direction from the camera including all the objects/assets in that range. I do not care in the least what type of computer or graphics would be required, that's what the settings are for. 1 should maybe be for a 486 and 10 maybe for a 10 GHz quadcore whatever with SLI/crossfire whatever graphics. If a Q9560/9800GTX whatever combo can only get to 6 or 7 so be it. At least there is a future path. This asset/object popping in and out at one or two kilometers is as annoying here as it was with MSTS.

Tell me exactly whatthis has to do with overall content creation? Sounds personal.
So, there you have it, theres why we dont have fresh content.

8) The smoke doesn't work in the new style ES44 - OK, granted that's a nit.

OOPS, How did that personal 'nit' get in there?
As much hostility has come from this forum, I cant blame them for not rushing MK2 out the door. We're all waiting for MSTS 2 which if it doesnt come with realistic smells and a gift card to wal-mart wont recieve a warm welcome either.

[Hack]

Hi Richard,

The following tidbits of info might be useful to you. :)
_________________________________________________

Major latitude crossing crashes

This indeed needs fixing. However, you can substitute SRTM3 data for the few tiles that cause the crash. Worked for me on a test route I was tinkering on, and once a few tiles were done, I replaced the DEM with SRTM and continued on.
_________________________________________________

SRTMs only - well this may be an enhancement but SRTMs just plain suck in mountains.

SRTM1 is actually pretty good - that is, if you're working on an area in the US. If outside the US, and I haven't tried, but I wonder if MicroDem (http://www.usna.edu/Users/oceano/pguth/website/microdem.htm) can resample SRTM3 for a smoother effect? Might be worth looking into if it applies to your project.

1/3 Arc second data (10m) would be better, but I don't think this can be resampled and converted for use in the sim. Even if it could, the resulting *.HGT and RS terrain tiles would choke even the best of systems (3 times the resolution over SRTM1, but nearly 10 times the size of the *HGT and terrain tiles).
_________________________________________________

the ability to change the start location in the world editor.

As you noted, you can alter the lat/lon in the route Blueprint. In order for it to take effect, however, I believe you need to delete the Blueprints.pak from the Assets\Kuju\RailSimulator and Assets\Kuju\RailSimulatorUS folders (if you're creating your own content, then delete the Blueprints.pak from your Assets\<developer>\<addon> directory. The sim will recreate the file(s) when you enter your route. A bit tedious, but it does work.
_________________________________________________

There are no blues in the paint tool (for lake/ocean bottoms) and no coal (blacks) either. Would that be an enhancement?

This should be easy enough to create. Simply create a 256 x 256 ACE image, export from your source folder, and then add a reference in the Assets\Kuju\RailSimulator\Environment\Terrain\Text uring.xml (converting it to *.bin afterwards). Be sure to change the <Wang d:type="cDeltaString"> entry from eTrue to eFalse. Keep in mind though, that the terrain doesn't use any bump mapping as does MSTS, so a solid texture, even under water, might look funny.
_________________________________________________

I never could get route markers to show up

A tricky one, yes, but once you get the hang of doing a few, their creation will become second nature. I found that the best method is to use Mike Simpson's RS Tools TMB utility. Assuming you created the needed files in your directory within the Source folder, you'll need to set the content filter in the route to use your content. From the route editor, simply click on the small blue cube (with the orange arrow) in the middle-left panel and check the box for your content from the right-side fly-out panel. Save the route, exit, and reload. You should have markers displayed. If not, let me know, and either I or someone else will give you a hand.

_________________________________________________

This business of this file relating to that file dependent on another file which is related to another file...

This can be cumbersome, yes, but the GUID method of linking content is actually very efficient overall. Not only does the sim run better for it, goof ups are less likely when downloading new content. If a goof appears, then no harm, no foul, as the user won't see something that's broke. Complete routes, of course, are a different issue, as their dependency on custom content can render the route useless, but otherwise won't bring down the sim for the other routes. MSTS, on the other hand, had a nasty habit of crashing or throwing up errors for just starting the sim.

_________________________________________________

In number 9. being my first route I dutifully picked "the" default ground cover instead of the US default ground cover and now I can't figure out how to change it. Changed it in the route blueprint - nada.

As mentioned above, deleting the Blueprints.pak may solve this.

[boleyd]

SRTMs only - well this may be an enhancement but SRTMs just plain suck in mountains.

SRTM1 is actually pretty good - that is, if you're working on an area in the US. If outside the US, and I haven't tried, but I wonder if MicroDem (http://www.usna.edu/Users/oceano/pguth/website/microdem.htm) can resample SRTM3 for a smoother effect? Might be worth looking into if it applies to your project.

1/3 Arc second data (10m) would be better, but I don't think this can be resampled and converted for use in the sim. Even if it could, the resulting *.HGT and RS terrain tiles would choke even the best of systems (3 times the resolution over SRTM1, but nearly 10 times the size of the *HGT and terrain tiles).


STRM is a sticking point for me. With 5m DEM available for the USA 38m stuff just looks bad. At least in FSX there is no big hit using 5m instead of 38m and the difference is very noticeable. After-all we are at ground level and up close and personal with the Earth so DEM has an even more important role in RS than a flight sim.

All we need is a program that converts BIL DEM files to HGT. The current converter BIL/SRTM converter is limited to 38M. I corresponded with the author and he has no interest in updating the program. A Google search revealed no alternatives. RSDL says that they can use 8M mesh so feeding it 5M mesh should be harmless (maybe). Someone awhile ago made a program to convert BIL to HGT but he disappeared - too bad.

No use speculating when, or if, the MK2 update will appear or what it will contain. The unfortunate thing is that some have a few "very important" things that must be changed or they claim that they will go away.

For the RS community it is important to keep the perceived problems and needs up front. If that means hijacking a thread so be it. If only one post was made that covered that person's issues then RSDL may believe that the update should only have the things they found to be troublesome. No onle else is complaining. However, if there is a constant drumbeat for various fixes then they receive a much stronger message and can make rational prioritized decisions.

I do believe that there is sufficient stirring in the customer base to encourage RSDL to release the update ASAP. Yes, I hear the "better late than wrong" argument but at some point things need buttoned up and released.

[jamesc25313]

No use speculating when, or if, the MK2 update will appear or what it will contain. The unfortunate thing is that some have a few "very important" things that must be changed or they claim that they will go away.

For the RS community it is important to keep the perceived problems and needs up front. If that means hijacking a thread so be it.

I think enough threads have been "hijacked' for the purpose of pointing fingers. Also, we know what the needs and especially the problems are and I hope RSDL know this. Also, RSDLadam even said:
Due to the limited resources at RSDL, we could not efficiently test and release the Addon while still maintaining work on Mk2. Thus being a business, profit earning work came first. That is fact of life. which lets you know where there focus is and has been.

However there is a very valid reason for this - We're in the UK, 3000 miles away. The sheer cost of travelling the US and the logistics of arranging access to perform research and collate accurate information to model rolling stock and routes, prohibits its product at the moment. I am pretty sure any US 3rd party would say EXACTLY the same if people requested they produce some highly accurate European content.

Which simply means, our focus isnt US content. This has all been the nice way of saying, we'll get to you when we can but we have other things on our plate. I guess this forum doesnt have moderators?

[boleyd]

This is a good example of people having different perspectives. I can't wait for the next goody to appear. The longer it takes the more aggravated I become. Others see the same setting as no big deal and we have faith that all will be ok.

During my professional life I found that the agendas of vendors do not, at times, match the customers needs. The vendor is playing to a broad market while the customer has a focused application need. I have never had such complete faith in any vendor that I am willing to simply deal with them on a "faith based" approach. It is not that they are evil or incompetent. It is that they are sometimes just not on the same track as me. As a customer I cannot simply sit back and believe all will be well given time and patience. I need to prod the vendor to conform to my objectives. My primary care for their objectives is that they remain a viable player in their market so I receive continued support. Sometimes this is congenial while at other times it is confrontational. We had meetings with the vendors where they were almost escorted to the door. At other times we were on their corporate jet enjoying the high-life.

Dealing with a vendor in a public forum is an impossible task. Here we see a committee trying to create a consensus not only on content but also on timing. All you can do is try to get your favorite need exposed and hope it is not shot down by someone 5000 miles away from a different culture that you simply cannot understand. If I could travel to the UK and sit with RSDL I could argue my case for my goodies. Then RSDL could have each customer come in and do the same thing. Several years later we get a patch.

The point is that RSDL is both Judge and Jury. The evidence that is presented to them comes from the international committee (internet). They must sort through applause and brick-bats. How well they do this is forming the future for their company.

[rjdiii]

I cannot creat custom content so I cant answer that.


Maybe if you tried like I am you wouldn't be so demeaning of those who are.


We can probably rest assure that dynamics and few other things on your list will be fixed when the latest update is out. I dont thik anyone would deny that at the very least the basics will be fixed such as dynamics and hopefully the screend in the ES44 just to name a few.


What makes you so sure? We're still waiting for those fixes from MS. Me, I'm a skeptic. I don't believe they're going to fix a single one of them.


Although we know this then why isnt anyone creating anything?


Because it's a PITA. I think the attachments pretty much cover all of my biggest gripes except for the signaling. Glenn 1 and 2 are SRTM problems, Gore 1 is crossing 40 north and all are limited by how far I can see.

Oh, and Hack, thanks for the suggestions. I've deleted the blueprints.pak so many times... I actually think its a permissions thing in Vista but running as Admin doesn't seem to make any difference.

I am not a programmer nor a digital graphic artist because it is all a black art to me. This is a hobby and if it is not an enjoyable experience why bother. All I ask for is an environment to do something enjoyable and right now this ain't it. Modeling I can grasp but this whole texturing thing completely baffles me.

So what would I want? I'd want Ron Picardi's bridges. But he doesn't seem to be interested in migrating them. I wonder why?

Richard

[Hack]

Are these holes in the DEM? If so, are you certain to have used SRTM1, instead of SRTM3 (big files - roughly 25mb per file, unzipped)?

If the above is SRTM1, then you might try the USGS Seamless DEM (http://seamless.usgs.gov/) data. My apologies if you already have a handle on the following procedures (I've been up all night, so I may have missed a step someplace)...

Enter the NA area to download the DEM, and zoom into the region and area you're after. Once ready, select and download the appropriate area from the displayed map - a new window will appear. This is the main download page for your requested DEM.

From the download window, choose the link at the top for "Modify Data Request." Wait for the new window to completely load (dumb javascript) before selecting or un-selecting any of the check boxes.

What you want is 1/3 NED, in BIL format zipped. When done, select the "Save Changes and Return to Summary" link at the bottom of the window. When the updated page loads, download the selected 1/3 NED data.

Download BILxSRTM (http://www.cplus.org/rmw/bilxsrtm.zip), and extract the file to a location anywhere on your PC.

Extract the BIL files from the downloaded zips, and start the BILxSRTM.exe utility. Locate the extracted BIL files, select the SRTM1 radio button (on by default, I believe), and select a save-to folder - a good place is the RailSimulator\DEM\SRTM directory.

Start RS and return to the problem areas in the above screens. In RE, use the 'T' key and see if the new data fixes the holes.

Let me know how things turn out. :)

[Hack]

However there is a very valid reason for this - We're in the UK, 3000 miles away. The sheer cost of travelling the US and the logistics of arranging access to perform research and collate accurate information to model rolling stock and routes, prohibits its product at the moment. I am pretty sure any US 3rd party would say EXACTLY the same if people requested they produce some highly accurate European content.
Which simply means, our focus isnt US content. This has all been the nice way of saying, we'll get to you when we can but we have other things on our plate. I guess this forum doesnt have moderators?
No - it means that rather than dig around in the dark for info, and possibly risking the fidelity of the prototype, RSDL is leaving it to us to fill content voids. Aside from the Cajon add-on, I don't believe RSDL have ever stated that they plan for additional NA content.

And FWIW, not only is Adam part of RSDL, he's also a moderator here. :rolleyes:

[tonyman2005]

OK play nice guys enough arguing between ourselves. What gets me the most about what Adam said about the US content is Kuju did the the cajon route and rolling stock. Are they in the US or the UK? IF they are in the UK then they found away to get research on US Stock why couldn't RSDL? IF Kuju is in the US then that explains how we got the US stock.

If RSDL doesn't want to do US content then they just need to say so! Then the US customers can take it from there and decide just what in the hell we are going to do.

Yes fixing the bugs in the core program should be RSDL's main concern right now. But most of the bugs that i've seen brought up in these forums can for the most part be worked around until they get a fix for them. the only thing that's holding up US content is us.

who cares about TS2 really? its still atleast a year away if not longer then again they could kill it like they have before. And we know how much support we got with the first TS under the MS brand. Trainz has a new sim coming out ( well really an upgrade of 2006) But we all know how auran gets when you question them. out of the sims that are out or coming out in the next year the only one that is promising support is RS right now. now if RSDL keeps it promise to continue working on this sim and to add more content is anyones guess.

Now back on topic, i was playing with my route last night and we need different types of us style level crossings. and we need more types of foliage and ground cover.

[Hack]

What gets me the most about what Adam said about the US content is Kuju did the the cajon route and rolling stock. Are they in the US or the UK? IF they are in the UK then they found away to get research on US Stock why couldn't RSDL? IF Kuju is in the US then that explains how we got the US stock.

The Cajon route was started by 3D Train Stuff, which included some early work on the rolling stock. Kuju/RSDL then took control of the project in late '06 or early '07.

[RSderek]

Hi,

We are not against doing rolling stock from NA or anywhere else in the world for that matter.

Gaining access to plans, photos and sounds (not to mention in depth knowledge of how x/y/z works to do with the items) is tough in this day and age, as some of you may know. So this restricts what we can do to the quality we like to produce too.

Kuju (UK) worked with 3dTrain Stuff (NA) to gather the majority of reference material for the Cajon pass and rolling stock, this worked well and gives weight to the argument that to do things well you need local experts to help guide you.
I (and certainly you guys) do not want not us to guess at what things look and feel like in future addons.

However, we are willing to work with asset/ scenario creators/route builders or others that gather reference to produce assets/rolling stock and routes.

So, I guess it comes down to this,
Let us help you make assets and rolling stock, (you do the hard work and we provide information on how to get it working) or you help us create assets and rolling stock. (you provide the information and we do the hard work)



RSDL have been around for almost a year, we said we would support RS and we have and we will continue to do so in the future.

regards

Derek

[Hack]

Thank you, Derek.

[boleyd]

Perhaps some people who are knowledgeable on US rail operations, routes, assets, signaling, assets, etc. could approach RSDL individually with suggested routes in a PRIVATE setting. RSDL might create a list of needed info and that would reduce some of the routes/railroads that have really disappeared. RSDL after choosing a route would then ask those with knowledge, photos, diagrams, etc. to provide that data to RSDL. Those contributors would be the testers. But NEVER open this process up to the Internet. The babel would ruin any chance of success as the socially undisciplined would be a pain.

The logic is simple for RSDL to do this.
First, they have the experience and the tools that can turn things out much faster, with higher quality, than the public. Isle of Wight typifies the possible results.

Second, if they charge a modest fee they recover their costs and make a company sustaining profit. The customer then profits from a new route and RSDL stays around.

[NorthernWarrior]

This should be easy enough to create. Simply create a 256 x 256 ACE image, export from your source folder, and then add a reference in the Assets\Kuju\RailSimulator\Environment\Terrain\Text uring.xml (converting it to *.bin afterwards). Be sure to change the <Wang d:type="cDeltaString"> entry from eTrue to eFalse. Keep in mind though, that the terrain doesn't use any bump mapping as does MSTS, so a solid texture, even under water, might look funny.

Unfortunately this is where us mere mortals start to get lost. Chopping and altering files which may or may not have to be altered on another end users install is not fun, even if you do know what you're doing.

I'm a route builder, not a coder and I still fail to see why RS was made so complicated to work with.

Also, isn't there still a restriction on the number of terrain texture sets you can have in a route - which must be committed to at the blueprint stage?

[jamesc25313]

So, I guess it comes down to this,
Let us help you make assets and rolling stock, (you do the hard work and we provide information on how to get it working) or you help us create assets and rolling stock. (you provide the information and we do the hard work)



RSDL have been around for almost a year, we said we would support RS and we have and we will continue to do so in the future.

regards

Derek

There you have it. So...

[RSDLadam]

Im no programmer/coder and Ive helped and developed many routes for Rail Simulator. I am also not aware of any requirements to be a coder/programmer to develop routes for Rail Simulator. I guess its just a self perpetuated belief.

The biggest hurdle I have helped so many over come with Rail Simulator is that we simply do things differently, and it seems this fact alone is a major contributor to people claiming either things cant be done, or its not worth getting involved with. Yet is doing things differently really that big a problem or so wrong? or is it that many people just think it will be a problem?

The age old saying of - You cant teach an old dog new tricks - comes to mind, but I think Rail Simulator has proven that belief wrong! :)

[Dan1]

However, we are willing to work with asset/ scenario creators/route builders or others that gather reference to produce assets/rolling stock and routes.

So, I guess it comes down to this,
Let us help you make assets and rolling stock, (you do the hard work and we provide information on how to get it working) or you help us create assets and rolling stock. (you provide the information and we do the hard work)



Sounds great.

So if we were to pursue the second option - that is to say - we give you the information and you then produce the route. What information would you want or need from us?

[RSderek]

Hi,
Assets and rolling stock is one thing, making a route is different issue all together.

RSDL are thinking careful about who to couple up with to help produce the next non UK route.

regards

Derek

[Dan1]

OK. So what information would you want from us to help you develop assets and rolling stock?

[RSderek]

Hi,

Well it depends on the item.
However, basically the more reference material the better the model/asset.
You can never have too much research.

For scenery items a couple of good elevation shots are fine, the more detail it has generally means a few more photos.
It is always best to take the photos on an over cast day so you do not get any hard shadows.
Before any photos are taken examples can be sent to the person to show what is required, though it is hardly rocket science.

For wagons it is plan drawings with dimensions and photos of details like bogies/piping lettering and numbers etc for textures.

Coaches or passenger cars the same as above but with interior photos too.

For a fully working engine it is a lot more work.

Plan drawings with dimensions.
Photos of engine/bogies/buffers etc from all angles showing all details, this could be up to 200 photos.

Access to the cab, photos, measurements.

Sounds are the hardest things to get, it often means getting access to a moving loco and having the driver run up and down the various settings.

Of course you can sometimes do more with less, but as I said earlier the more reference the better the model.
regards

Derek

[Dan1]

OK. So if we were to say to that we would like a SD70ACe, or a box car, or the Southwest Chief and we were to get all of the required information to you then you would build it?

[Hack]

OK. So if we were to say to that we would like a SD70ACe, or a box car, or the Southwest Chief and we were to get all of the required information to you then you would build it?

I don't believe that RSDL are giving any guarantees. However, it might be safe to assume that if they have access to or provided the required material, the item(s) can then begin an evaluation process.

[trackman44]

Here is a nice website full of reference data for RSDL:-
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/manual/manual.html
These manuals and service manuals should provide RSDL with tons of info on locomotive data. And as for pictures I suggest www.railpictures.net , tons of pictures (even cab shots!). Hope this helps RSDL on the right track, so to speak!;)

trackman44:)

PS. If RSDL needs pictures of tracks, buildings, rail stations, signal posts, rail yards, depots, etc. I would send if asked. Hope others would help in this area too.

[jamesc25313]

Could one of you guys post the links to those blueprint sites? That would be great, that should help some. Someone mentioned earlier about route building, but I wouldnt push your luck. Id stick with some new rolling stock and/or engines and leave it up to the community to come up with routes for now, mainly because this is already taking place. Also, I think it should be common rolling stock, not RR specific or era specific. I think many would agree this makes it more universal.

[Dan1]

I don't believe that RSDL are giving any guarantees. However, it might be safe to assume that if they have access to or provided the required material, the item(s) can then begin an evaluation process.

I wouldn't expect them to and that is fair enough. But do RSDL want us to give a specific choice as to what we want - ie we hold a poll on here to see what people would like to see or what?

[RSderek]

Hi,
From my understanding of how things work, very few want the same things, and getting everyone to agree is like hearding cats.
However if we were to work with interested parties then it would be done in private over email on a one to one basis and not on a public forum.

For those interested then feel free to pm me.

Nice manuals by the way Trackman, will make good bed time reading.

regards

Derek

[jamesc25313]

Hi,
From my understanding of how things work, very few want the same things, and getting everyone to agree is like hearding cats.
However if we were to work with interested parties then it would be done in private over email on a one to one basis and not on a public forum.



Aint that the truth? We'd have a knock down drag out arguments, just trying to agree on what to put on the poll.

[jessiejames2]

any way some one could make some freight cars we need new box cars and maybe a bulkhead flat car for some lumber loads:D
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/3858/needst8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/2956/boxcarnr7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[tonyman2005]

i'd be happy with RSDL 1st making some rolling stock in what ever US road name they choose or just a generic scheme. we can always reskin them in more road names. As for the route building some of us in the community are doing that but would welcome help from RSDL on building different routes. since we are tied to one route until its pretty much finished and out the door. the more people making different routes the more routes we'll have and the faster they'll be available.

I think this forum is proof enough that we all have different opinions and it will be hard to find common ground but i think we're headed in the right direction now.

Thanks Adam and Derek for your willingness to provide some help in the US content area and for telling us what you'll need to help out.

[jamesc25313]

i'd be happy with RSDL 1st making some rolling stock in what ever US road name they choose or just a generic scheme. we can always reskin them in more road names.
I think this forum is proof enough that we all have different opinions and it will be hard to find common ground but i think we're headed in the right direction now.


I think were making headway now. I agree that the rollng stock could be plain and generic and the community could come up with the paint schemes. I think we have enough people to paint but if we only had more modelers for other things such as tunnels, bridges ect at the very least.

[rjdiii]

Are these holes in the DEM? If so, are you certain to have used SRTM1, instead of SRTM3 (big files - roughly 25mb per file, unzipped)?


Yup.


If the above is SRTM1, then you might try the USGS Seamless DEM (http://seamless.usgs.gov/) data. My apologies if you already have a handle on the following procedures (I've been up all night, so I may have missed a step someplace)...

<snip>

What you want is 1/3 NED, in BIL format zipped. When done, select the "Save Changes and Return to Summary" link at the bottom of the window. When the updated page loads, download the selected 1/3 NED data.


Nope, the 1/3 s don't work (don't I wish). It has been mentioned elsewhere the bil to srtm utility won't handle them and I can verify that.


Extract the BIL files from the downloaded zips, and start the BILxSRTM.exe utility. Locate the extracted BIL files, select the SRTM1 radio button (on by default, I believe), and select a save-to folder - a good place is the RailSimulator\DEM\SRTM directory.

Start RS and return to the problem areas in the above screens. In RE, use the 'T' key and see if the new data fixes the holes.

Let me know how things turn out. :)


Well I tried something I hadn't tried before. I downloaded the 1 arcsecond .BIL from seamless.usgs and tried again. Success, mostly. There are significant differences in the data reference points that now has the track in the middle of the Colorado River or even under it in several locations. And the elevations are different between 5 and 20 meters - probably why some parts are now under the river. So I had to do the whole canyon over and will have to fudge around Glennwood Springs and Dotsero. But it appears this data is noticeably more accurate than the NASA data. And all the holes are gone! :)

Thanks Hack!

So, Marc, when is some of your stuff going to be available? A CZ would be awesome! Particularly with the aspen and platinum (no stripes) PAs.

And, on a tangent, would someone please reskin the NS bathtub Gons UP. The NS just looks out of place in Colorado (or anywhere else on the UP).

[nikos1]

Rolling stock wise what we need more than anything is gondola's. Im stuck using those DB ones with euro trucks and buffers, not at all accurate but the only thing close.

[Hack]

Sorry Richard - I forgot that the converter doesn't like anything other than 1 or 3 arcsecond data. I'm glad to hear you got most of things sorted out, however.

As for content, I'm still tinker with MSTS, but have been trying my hand lately at getting ScaleRail into RS Cajon Pass:

http://www.3dtrains.com/screens/srrs_sm.jpg (http://www.3dtrains.com/screens/srrs.jpg)

The track still needs rail spikes, a few texture tweaks and a finished switch stand, but everything appears to be working out nicely. I tried making true 3D ties, but I didn't care for the gaps that developed between track joins. Tweaking the ballast pile for the layered version seems to work fine, so if everything turns out OK, I'll release RS ScaleRail in a week or two. :)

[jessiejames2]

Wow! nice:eek:

[OwainGlyndwr]

If RSDL got their fingers out of their rear ends and directly engaged with someone like Marc.

We might see something useful happen.

But all we get is double talk.

RSDL first of all had to release the IOW add on to make money, because they are not big enough to work on two projects ( IOW & MK2 Update ) at the same time.

Yet they then say if they had enough info for US content they would gladly create some.

Thats either blatant lying or a total meltdown of their collective memories.

[jamesc25313]

RSDL first of all had to release the IOW add on to make money, because they are not big enough to work on two projects ( IOW & MK2 Update ) at the same time.

Yet they then say if they had enough info for US content they would gladly create some.


They didnt say they werent big enough to not work on both projects at the same time because if they werent, then they wouldnt be where they are now with (or say they are) MK2 update would they? From what I understood he simply said that the priority was IOW because like any business, money comes first because they have to eat like everyone else.

[M1ckran]

I know many Welsh people who have found that they can make a difference by doing things for themselves rather than by sitting back and complaining that the Romans, English or Americans don't look after them properly...

If Wales is "Gods Country" I think He must have been on holiday since the days of the Druids. Looking around, I'm not sure if he's on this planet anymore.

Still, we've got Rail Simulator and Owain Glyndwr! :)

[OwainGlyndwr]

Dunno what the hell all that rubbish was about Mick.

But you keep taking the medication mate and one day you may even be half coherant. :D

[jamesc25313]

I know many Welsh people who have found that they can make a difference by doing things for themselves rather than by sitting back and complaining that the Romans, English or Americans don't look after them properly...


You'd think that would be the case, that these guys would take matters into there own hands but we have another option (MSTS 2) which some seemed to have said forget it, Ill just wait on that and see what happens but if we didnt have MSTS 2 coming out, youd bet there would be more people nosing around these forums trying to get something done.

[OwainGlyndwr]

@ jamesc25313

RSDL got better script writers than Putin & Bush.

[OwainGlyndwr]

I am waiting for MSTS2 for your information.

Nothing could be as bad as RS, not even a microsoft product.

[M1ckran]

Dunno what the hell all that rubbish was about Mick.

But you keep taking the medication mate and one day you may even be half coherant. :D

Sorry. Just pondering on the meaning of life, the universe and everything.

Now, where's me pills...

[eaglefan9727]

They didnt say they werent big enough to not work on both projects at the same time because if they werent, then they wouldnt be where they are now with (or say they are) MK2 update would they? From what I understood he simply said that the priority was IOW because like any business, money comes first because they have to eat like everyone else.

While I agree with what you stated in the paragraph above.

On the flip side of that, First impressions means alot to be a business of any kind. If people arent impressed with the business. That business will loose money due to word of mouth and so forth. I know that from the past as I have been on both sides of a good and bad business and it seems like they really didnt have a good first impression with the community, Because if they did have a good first impression. They probably wouldnt have to do a payware route to keep them afloat.

[OwainGlyndwr]

Mick,

i like a good joke and wind up with anybody. ;)

But RS is beyond a joke.

My opinions are my own and i don't expect anyone to agree with me.

But i will keep making them, regardless. ;)

cheers,
Mike.

[RSDLadam]

Hiya,

I think its unfair to say that the sales of a single Addon are required to 'keep RSDL afloat'! Such a statement couldnt be further from the truth. However we have been operating for over 9 months and those that be would like to see our operations generate some money directly, rather than purely continuing to support the expansion of sales of the core software.

I believe it is definately the case that several individuals believe heavily in the word of mouth theory and put suprising amounts of effort into doing as much as they can to say untrue and critical things about RSDL. If other products provide so much more enjoyment to these individuals, what are they spending their time on forums for a product they dont even like. Very odd.

Kinda odd really, we're here to help people and enhance this hobby further than it ever has been, and yet some individuals would rather see us falsely ridiculed and criticised at every turn. Its a shame that the minority are attempting to spoil it for the majority.

[OwainGlyndwr]

If other products provide so much more enjoyment to these individuals, what are they wasting their time on forums for a product they dont even like. Very odd

What i do with my time is non of your business. I was on these forums long before you and will probably still be here, long after you have gone.

Free speech is a wonderful thing and thank god not everyone walks the party line.

[M1ckran]

I'm not sure of the facts surounding RSDL. As far as I can make out, Kuju originally developed RS and EA distributed it, so it makes sense that Kuju and EA share the proceeds.

As I understand it, RSDL are now developing RS and Kuju/EA are no longer involved. I expect that RSDL make money from their work and pay Kuju some kind of royalty for the privelege, but I doubt whether RSDL has made anything from the original release of RS.

If this is the case, it's probably unfair to criticise RSDL too much because they did not release the original product and they have no income from it. I'd be surprised if there is no business contact with other developers from other countries, but such things would obviously be confidential.

I think I have more faith in a small business like RSDL, that supports its customers by exposing themselves on the internet (behave yourself Glyndwr):p, than some faceless conglomerate like EA.

Nothing's perfect but I don't think I could do better and I'm willing to be patient.

Michael

PS - Still haven't taken me pills!

[livercup]

The rule of thumb is: If someone is impressed with your product or service, they will tell one other person. If they are unimpressed, they will tell seven. It's human nature. But, you are right Adam, some people are making it a goal to bash RS at every turn. It makes you wonder what their agenda is. Those who speak out about liking the product are beat down at every turn. Adam, you are right, if they hate it so much they should just go away and play something else.
Tom

[jamesc25313]

If other products provide so much more enjoyment to these individuals, what are they wasting their time on forums for a product they dont even like. Very odd.

Im really not trying to choose sides but I do believe in being fair. Ive watched people for months come down here from there beloved MSTS forum and get this forum fired up and not see them again until they felt like firing off at the mouth once again. Im not disputing anything that anyone says about the problems with the sim, or what "we" need ect. What Im saying is if you feel so badly that RSDL isnt holding to there end of the deal and Im assuming you must play the game or want to play the game or why else would you be here? Then why dont you do it yourself? I created this topic to say what can we do as a community to give this sim a boost, not lets shoot off a few rounds at RSDL.

If you feel theyve failed then great, lets move on and do it ourselves. I really dont see the need to add more fuel to the fire at this point. RSDLAdam has said he'd take a look into getting some models made and thats already getting ridiculed. At the very least lets see where it goes. What do we have to lose? I havent exactly seen anyone from here come up with too many ideas.

[OwainGlyndwr]

Someone else now trying to tell me what i should or should not do with my life.

You post your opinions i post mine, thats what a forum is for.

I paid for the software, i also paid for Cajon which i shouldn't have had to do.

I bought the 08 shunters, i bought the class 66 pack.

I also paid 20 quid for the IOW fiasco, in case anyone uses the assets in a decent route.

So therefore i have every right as a paying customer, to state my views as forcefully as i feel i can. Within the framework of the law.

[jamesc25313]

Someone else now trying to tell me what i should or should not do with my life.

You post your opinions i post mine, thats what a forum is for.

I paid for the software, i also paid for Cajon which i shouldn't have had to do.

I bought the 08 shunters, i bought the class 66 pack.

I also paid 20 quid for the IOW fiasco, in case anyone uses the assets in a decent route.

So therefore i have every right as a paying customer, to state my views as forcefully as i feel i can. Within the framework of the law.

No thats not what this topic is for so post your opinions some where else. We know what your opinion is and it doesnt make sense why someone so bitter would bother buying these addons for such a bad game? It really makes a lot of sense to buy all those addons and then spend more time complaining about them then actually playing them doesnt it? YOure a really bitter person and I dont think Ive ever read one nice post from you. What is your deal? Did you have a bad childhood? Is it that MSTS is so boring you have nothing better to do than come here and spout off at the mouth because theres nothing to do in Gods Country? I wasnt talking to you directly but you ASSUMED I was because you know youre just as much part of the problem and definatley not part of the solution.

[eaglefan9727]

I believe it is definately the case that several individuals believe heavily in the word of mouth theory.

Ive seen it happen before and will probably see it again in my lifetime.

If other products provide so much more enjoyment to these individuals, what are they spending their time on forums for a product they dont even like.

Have you ever thought that those people might wanna see this sim succeed in the future at some point in the future? I know I do, But with 2 new sims coming out within a year or so and with what has transpired so far with this sim. I am not sure how much success this sim will have.

We're here to help people

Like Ive always stated, This is one of the best things Ive seen from your company and Ill always say that.

Anyways, Im just speaking my opinion and I am not trying to come in here and argue with anyone. Everyone has a right to there opinion and I spoke mine while you spoke yours. We might not agree on stuff, But that is just how life is at times.

[RSderek]

Ok guys, we have been here before and RSDL know the views of many on here, lets all back off a little and try and keep this useful thread open.

regards

Derek

[westerngy]

Well Thanks to a few this thread is locked.It always seems the same few wanna voice the same OLD opinion and yes its getting OLD.