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richb
08-13-2008, 10:38 AM
This is interesting:

What about trains?

It is the signaling equipment that determines whether a double track railway goes on the left or on the right. Many modern main-line railways are equipped to allow traffic at full speed in either direction on either track, and in some cases it is normal to use both tracks for trains in the same direction simultaneously. On tracks with older signaling equipment, as well as on lines with heavy traffic such as metros and suburban traffic, each track is almost always used in one direction only. Most railway authorities then have a general rule. (Jens Brix Christiansen)

Here are the rules for a few countries:

Left: Australia, Belgium, Denmark, France, Hong Kong, India, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Portugal, Singapore, Sweden, Switzerland, Taiwan, UK.
Right: Canada, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Hungary, Netherlands, Norway, Romania, Russia, USA.

It is important that road traffic be consistently on the same side of the road, but since railways are highly controlled and don't always interconnect, there are many exceptions to the general rules of train operation.

Most trains in the United Kingdom operate on the left, and the driver sits on the left, allowing a better view of trackside signals and the possibility of sticking one's head out the window without it getting knocked off by a train on the other track (Thomas Murphy), although I doubt that many modern train drivers stick their heads out their windows very often when running at speed. There are a number of short sections on the London Underground where for one reason or another trains operate on the right -- for example, the Northern Line at Bank Station. On the line from Glasgow to Fort William in Scotland, trains keep to the right at stations because the station platform is an island between two tracks, and the train operator, who sits on the left, can more easily view the platform. (Martin Rich)

In France (where cars keep to the right), trains run on the left as a legacy from the days when they were first constructed by English engineers with equipment imported from England. "When the Paris Métro was being built (the first line opened in 1900) there was some debate about the rule of the road. The city authorities were quite keen to maintain their autonomy from central government which had been suggesting the metro should be built to allow troop movements within the city in the event of civil commotion. The first lines were only a short way below the surface and along the lines of streets so it was logical to have right hand running." (Notre Métro by Dr. J. Robert, reported by Norman Bartlett) French railways in Alsace-Lorraine run on the right, as it wasn't worthwhile converting them when the territory was returned to France. (Mark Brader)

In Korea, trains drive on the left, presumably because the railroad system was built by the Japanese (who drive on the left) when Korea was a Japanese colony. The Seoul subway, on the other hand, was constructed beginning in the 1980s with French aid; by that time, Korean and French drivers were both driving on the right, so the subway does too, except for one line which connects directly to the National Railway, and which therefore must be on the left. "It can be confusing when deciding which side of a concourse to board a train," says Douglas Clark.

In Russia, most trains run on the right, except for the line between Moscow and Ryazan, which was designed and built by British engineers (reported by Sergey Fedosov). Metros run on the right except for the Nizhniy Novgorod metro line 2, which runs on the left for easier interchanges with line 1; apparently this is a temporary measure and when the lines are extended past their interchange at Moskovskaya station, they will both revert to right-hand running (Andrey Chernyakhovsky).

In Taiwan, trains drive on the left because the railroads were mostly built during the period of Japanese rule -- and the Japanese drive on the left. Taiwan has since changed to driving on the right but the old trains remain on the left. The new Taipei Rapid Transit System, built in the 1990s with French aid, keeps to the right. (Justin Jih)

In the USA and Canada, trains keep to the right, with one major exception: the Chicago and Northwestern Railroad. The line's construction was financed by British capital, which may have influenced the track plans. It may also be that the stations were arbitrarily placed all on one side of the tracks when the line was single-track, and when the second track was added it was impractical to change all the station alignments so the outbound track ended up on the left. (Don Howard, Eric Zimmerman) Another exception can be found in the approaches to New York City's Grand Central Station, which were run left-handed around 1900 because the new arrivals section of the terminal was built on the only available land, on the wrong side of the tracks. The crossing point was several miles north of the station, away from the worst congestion. (James F. Boylan)

The Rochester, New York, and Cleveland, Ohio trolley car (tram) subways ran left handed so that center platforms between the tracks could be shared in both directions by single direction cars with only curbside doors. In Rochester, many of the ramps to get cars down from the street to the subway were single-track, so you entered and exited the ramps from opposite sides of double track. There have been other smaller and isolated instances, sometimes for better visibility at a certain point. (James F. Boylan)

While American railroad engineers usually sit on the right side, there are exceptions. One is the above-mentioned Chicago & North Western Railway; in addition, sometimes self-propelled passenger cars (including most trolley cars) are designed to board passengers at the front from right-hand platforms, so the operator sits either center or left. (James F. Boylan)

Rui Gustavo Crespo notes that where neighboring countries run their trains on opposite sides of the track, trains must switch sides at the border. "In The Netherlands trains run on the right, but in Belgium they move on the left. Last Sunday I travelled between the two countries. At Roosendal (a Dutch city close to the border), the train stopped at the railway station and had to wait for permission to move to the left track: from then, although we were still in Netherlands, our train was conducted on the left."

A tunnel and bridge (the Øresund link) connects Copenhagen, Denmark, where trains run on the right, and Malm� Sweden, where they run on the left. The railway's signaling equipment allows full-speed traffic in either direction on both tracks, but it was decided that trains on the link would keep right, and Malmö Central Station is the cross-over point so that all traffic in Sweden south of Malmö Central now goes on the right. (Jens Brix Christiansen)

djt1
08-13-2008, 04:30 PM
In the USA and Canada, trains keep to the right,


This has been discussed many times before but with ABS 261 traffic no longer has to strictly run on one track or in one direction only. The days of ABS 251 (current of traffic) territory are long gone and there is very little left as far as this territory is concerned here in the states.

With ABS 261 the dispatcher can run trains in either direction on either track as he or she sees fit depending on the current situation of the operation.

rdamurphy
08-13-2008, 06:37 PM
With exceptions.

Robert

djt1
08-13-2008, 07:07 PM
With exceptions.


depending on the current situation of the operation.

There’s you’re exceptions, unless of course there is a special instruction in the timetable that specifically states otherwise, which with ABS 261 I’ve never heard of any.

rdamurphy
08-13-2008, 08:28 PM
I was agreeing with you, most of the time it's because of grades. The Joint Line south of Denver for instance, last I knew, wasn't even set up for bi-directional running south of the last set of interlockings before County Line Road.

Robert

djt1
08-13-2008, 08:52 PM
I was agreeing with you, most of the time it's because of grades.

I’ve never heard of “grades” being the reason behind ABS 251/current of traffic. There is plenty of bi-directional signaling on heavy grade territory. When 251 was the norm it was obviously used in multi-mainline territory. The cost of upgrading 251 territory was the biggest reason for “current of traffic” hanging on. Single tracking mainlines and the flexibility of ABS 261 is what pushed a lot of railroads into upgrading.

The Joint Line south of Denver for instance, last I knew, wasn't even set up for bi-directional running south of the last set of interlockings before County Line Road.



If it’s not “set up for bi-directional running” then it’s not ABS 261 territory. The timetable/SSI will tell you what rules are in effect for that territory whether it is CTC/ABS 261 or ABS 251 or just TWC.

rdamurphy
08-13-2008, 09:45 PM
Ah, I see! Good information, thanks! You wouldn't have the SSI for that stretch, would you?

Robert

djt1
08-13-2008, 09:51 PM
Ah, I see! Good information, thanks! You wouldn't have the SSI for that stretch, would you?
Robert

Who owns the trackage? Is it BNSF’s?

Also I forgot to ask you before, this spot where you think the territory is 251/current of traffic, is there a grade separation at this point? What I mean is there two mainlines that separate from each other for a short stretch and then come back together?

rdamurphy
08-13-2008, 10:10 PM
It's actually UP southbound track, and BNSF northbound track between Pueblo and Denver. They are seperated by quite a bit between Denver and Palmer Lake, then they go single track again for a short stretch, then seperate again from Colorado Springs to just north of Pueblo. They were originally D&RGW southbound and AT&SF northbound. I'm not sure how BNSF/UP does it, but they trains ran D&RGW timetable southbound, and AT&SF timetable northbound. The mileposts are also different, on each mainline.

Robert

djt1
08-13-2008, 10:47 PM
It's actually UP southbound track, and BNSF northbound track between Pueblo and Denver. They are seperated by quite a bit between Denver and Palmer Lake, then they go single track again for a short stretch, then seperate again from Colorado Springs to just north of Pueblo. They were originally D&RGW southbound and AT&SF northbound. I'm not sure how BNSF/UP does it, but they trains ran D&RGW timetable southbound, and AT&SF timetable northbound. The mileposts are also different, on each mainline.
Robert

A lot of railroads engineered “grade/line separations” at various locations depending on the severity of the gradient at certain locations along the route.

From what you describe it sounds like BNSF/UP ended up leaving this stretch of grade separation 251/current of traffic. From what you can see of the line is the north track signaled in one direction and the south track signaled in one direction?

rdamurphy
08-13-2008, 11:24 PM
Originally, the D&RGW was built as a narrow guage line, then widened to standard gauge. The AT&SF decided to build their own line parallel to it, and did so on a different right-of-way. When the Rio Grande widened the line, they partnered with the AT&SF to operate them together as the "Joint" line, since at the time, both operated on Train Orders, it was easier to handle the abundance of traffic for both roads. In the 70's, the portion of the Rio Grande track through the Air Force Academy was removed and the tracks were combined - a bad decision in retrospect, as it's a huge bottleneck for the dispatechers.

As far back as I can remember, the lines are only signalled in one direction, and only had timetables for one direction. I don't know if that's changed or not.

The lines interlock in Englewood into a dual direction, multitrack mainline, and run to the two road's yards, and seperate near 38th avenue, and Union Station.

Robert

djt1
08-13-2008, 11:57 PM
As far back as I can remember, the lines are only signalled in one direction, and only had timetables for one direction. I don't know if that's changed or not.


I’ll see if I can dig up a current timetable for this division.

seaboardairline
08-14-2008, 10:03 AM
This has been discussed many times before but with ABS 261 traffic no longer has to strictly run on one track or in one direction only. The days of ABS 251 (current of traffic) territory are long gone and there is very little left as far as this territory is concerned here in the states.

With ABS 261 the dispatcher can run trains in either direction on either track as he or she sees fit depending on the current situation of the operation.

This is mentioned in the first paragraph of the article, whats the point in mentioning it again? What is good about this article is it shows the practices in most other countries. After all the U.S. is not the "be all" in the world. In the world scheme of railroading, the U.S. is growing smaller and most other coutries are adding trackage and upgrading to high speed lines. I am a retired Amtrak manager and I can tell you from a passenger operation standpoint most U.S. railroads are letting their trackage and equipment go downhill fast! Poor trackage is one of the main reasons for Amtrak's tardy schedules.
Arthur

rdamurphy
08-14-2008, 12:08 PM
No, actually, Amtrak is the main reason for Amtrak's tardy schedules...

That and freight railroads that don't want Amtrak trains on their track at all anyway. Why hasn't Amtrak been privatized? Quite simply because it's a waste of money.

That might change with the airlines going out of business, but I doubt it.

Robert

seaboardairline
08-14-2008, 02:04 PM
No, actually, Amtrak is the main reason for Amtrak's tardy schedules...
That and freight railroads that don't want Amtrak trains on their track at all anyway. Why hasn't Amtrak been privatized? Quite simply because it's a waste of money.
That might change with the airlines going out of business, but I doubt it.
Robert

Robert, you've not rode the rails in the east much have you? Some of the worst trackage (due to poor maintenance) is in Florida, Georgia, the Carolinas and Alabama. There are speed restrictions of 55mph (and lower) in many areas.

The US railroads in the 50's and 60's felt carrying passenger traffic was a pain in the ass and wanted to drop it, (airlines are getting this feeling too, they'd rather carry freight only if they could.) Amtrak was started by the government because passenger rail was deemed a necessity and the railroads agreed to let Amtrak take over pax services to run over railroad tracks. The railroads do not want to ever run pax service again, thats why there will be no privatization! Currently railroads are slowly losing freight revenue to road and air carriers, a major reason for some lines to cut back on repairs and freight services.

With the increased fuel costs, the demise of some airline and bus services to many areas a passenger rail network is a necessary service. It really is a shame when so many other countries are expanding rail, we in the US are slowly watching rail lines shrink.

Arthur

djt1
08-14-2008, 04:17 PM
whats the point in mentioning it again


This is why it was mentioned again -


Here are the rules for a few countries:
In the USA and Canada, trains keep to the right, with one major exception: the Chicago and Northwestern Railroad.

djt1
08-14-2008, 04:44 PM
Some of the worst trackage (due to poor maintenance) is in Florida, Georgia, the Carolinas and Alabama.

I’ll agree with you there, I’ve worked in train service in the mid west, southeast and northeast and the southeast was by far the worst. Some of the yards that I used to go in and out of in Georgia, Florida and South Carolina were deplorable and I’m talking about a class one railroad.

In contrast the Conrail trackage in the northeast where I worked, New York, New Jersey and Mass was very well maintained and some of the best I’ve seen. Of course Metro-North and the corridor trackage is some of the best in the US.




Why hasn't Amtrak been privatized? Quite simply because it's a waste of money.


It all comes down our priorities, are you content on hauling around cubic feet of air in your SUV at five dollars a gallon or putting some attention into mass transit. Take a look at the Manhattan area you will see that passenger trains are far from a waste of money. The same could work very well for other metropolitan areas of the US. Between gas prices and grid lock on our 1940’s road system, America is in for a rude awakening.

rdamurphy
08-14-2008, 08:27 PM
This has nothing to do with "Left or Right Track."

Robert