The 8-40's

[qballbandit]

Hello,
I have recently grown fond of this engine in MSTS (as well as real world), and love to run UP 8-40c's around short hauls and transfers. I think it's one of the smarter and more muscular looking 6 axle engines of our day.
What do real hoggers have to say about this engine, in general? Performance, comfort, visibility? I'd love to hear any comments.

Thanks to all,

Neil :)

[BNSFfan]

Aslong as the chair isn't falling apart, it can pull, has A/C and a working heater, the crews up here don't care. That.. and the toilet doesn't completely reek.

[plainsman]

I'm not a real hogger, but I think some generalizations:
Great alternators and traction motors, very sturdy and able to take lots of amps. GEs pull hard. They also have more detailed wheelslip adjustment, by the axle as opposed to by the truck on some others.
The turbos may not be the greatest, and some think the FDL inner workings can be subject to premature wear. This may be amplified by many shops having had a lot more EMD service experience than GE, and the two don't exactly maintain the same way. Another operating gripe, the GEs are slow to load. You can model that in MSTS by setting:
RunUpTimeToMaxForce ( 52 ).
but this may cause problems if you run in reverse during switching, due to a bug in MSTS.

[chucksc]

I'm not a real hogger, but I think some generalizations:
Great alternators and traction motors, very sturdy and able to take lots of amps. GEs pull hard. They also have more detailed wheelslip adjustment, by the axle as opposed to by the truck on some others.
The turbos may not be the greatest, and some think the FDL inner workings can be subject to premature wear. This may be amplified by many shops having had a lot more EMD service experience than GE, and the two don't exactly maintain the same way. Another operating gripe, the GEs are slow to load. You can model that in MSTS by setting:
RunUpTimeToMaxForce ( 52 ).
but this may cause problems if you run in reverse during switching, due to a bug in MSTS.
Bob here is what I have heard about all this -

The slow to load is an urban myth, sort of...

some U-Boats and the Pooches loaded faster than any GM

It is reportedly caused by the computers trying to hold emissions down and the rev-up speed difference between a 4 cycle (GE) and a 2 cycle (EMD).... That being said, I have heard from folks in motive power engineering that if the EMD is set to meet tier 2 emissions they load just as slow as a GE. Also GE released a microcode update called "Racetrack" that makes a significant difference - the problem is that it is a cost item IIRC and the RRs are slow to adapt it and the one outfit that really needs it, Amtrak, can't afford the time or money as they are trying to recover from the cheap a%%ed Chinese traction motors they are stuck with....

Supposedly the Gevos load at least as fast as an EMD

[BNSFfan]

Oh, from my experience with GEVO's they load as faster than EMD's Teir II SD70ACe/M-2 series locomotives. One factor is the weight of the locomotive itself, but I believe that EMD's emission control as stated by Chuck is to blame. Back on topic, the Dash-8's we get here are usually C40-8W's and B40-8W's aside from the paint peeling off of them, the crew's and I don't care, they can lug a train with 2 C40-8W's over the 1.5% grade up near Long Lake with the same weight and length (or dang close) better than a 3 SD40-2's could. I've watched that before on two seperate occasions.

[plainsman]

The quick loading EMD reputation really is the non turbo 567 and 645 iterations. The GP49 (645/12/turbo) and the GP35 (567/turbo) were both problematic, the GP49 had really bad turbo lag, the GP35 because it was so complicated in transition and shunting, as well as turbo. A GP7 or GP18 or GP38-2 is quick to load in comparison to all these, or the 710 new models. But a U33B won't load as quick as GP7 or GP38-2.

[Turbo Bill]

I agree with Bob on his assessment. The older EMD's are quicker to load and I believe it is also due to the fact that these engines used relay's and contacts to apply the power. The relays had no delays built into them and thus were very quick in their applications. The older units were very quick to also change directions immediately applying the changes made with the reverser. Stick an old GP7 in reverse while moving forward and all forms of bad things happen as the traction motors immediately go into reverse mode. On the Dash-2 locomotives their microprocessors have built in delays to remove the harshness that old relay systems had. There is also a built in delay for changing directions to reduce the chance of damage should one put the reverser in the opposite direction while the locomotive was still moving.

[qballbandit]

Interesting reading guys, thanks for you responses!

Neil :)

[CRQ5508]

A GP7 or GP18 or GP38-2 is quick to load in comparison to all these, or the 710 new models. But a U33B won't load as quick as GP7 or GP38-2.

I was reading an interesting article today, by an engineer who worked for the Erie, in an old Trains Magazine. While by today's standards a GP7 may load fast, back then, it was slow as all heck compared to the ALCOs. EMDs used to have a 2-to-3 second time for the engine to get up to revs, where-as ALCOs were almost instantaneous. SD70s don't seem to load to fast from what I've seen. Take a look at this video I found on youtube. Notice the amount of time from when the guy moves the throttle, to when the engine even starts revving up... I notice a 4 second delay before the engine catches up... Now, I know this isn't as important in drag service, or a road-train in general, but when switching or kicking cars, it can be a nuisance... anyway.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cl2bOXi47Xg

[TrainMan_112]

Older EMDs such as SD40-2s load quite quick and are very responsive. Newer EMDs like the SD90s load ssslllllooooowwwww.

New GE's like the ACs and GEVOs load quick. Combined with the power output, I've heard that they can rip a train in two if you're not careful. With the EMDs it's a lot more difficult to break a train apart.

I've seen many engineers flog the throttle on the SD90s (Idle straight to 8) many times and you wouldn't know it simply because they don't have much "get-up-and-go" in them.

I can recall a time when an engineer I know was DBing down a sag in maybe B3-B4 or so. At the bottom of this sag it abruptly reverses and becomes a fairly steep climb to the top. We were coming down this at about 25 per, again in B3-B4, and the headend started to climb up the other side of the sag. When about 1/4 of the train passed the bottom and began to climb, we started to slowly lose speed. The engineer put the throttle from B3 or B4 straight into N8. The RPMs came reasonably quick but not much TE was being produced. We didn't even feel a jerk when the slack ran out.