No middle ground?

[pstraten]

Just what is it about the folks around here? They seem to be able to live by the ground rules of any other MSTS forum, for instance 3dtrains.com/forums. But not here (see my locked thread "Sniff, sniff...Ahh."

Well I guess old habits once established do die all too hard. A shame that a genuine question has to degenerate into inane stupidity. Perhaps it will take months for this forum to start generating some interesting content other than "your political party is utterly stupid and worthy only of contempt."

Well, I, for one, am willing to wait. And maybe, eventually, those who find nothing but contempt in other people's ideas and world views will find other venues to vent their spleen on.

And I wonder how long it will take until the few who won't migrate elsewhere will take to get this one locked.

[Hawk]

You just can't leave well enough alone, can you?

[jhilden2]

And I wonder how long it will take until the few who won't migrate elsewhere will take to get this one locked.

I'll take a piece of the action

PLACE YOUR BETS

Odds When Locked
1/1 Tonight

2/1 Morning

8/1 Two days

10/1 Three days

99/1 Never being locked

[pstraten]

No, Hawk, it's a real question. I already applauded you on your starting your own site for the disgruntled around here. I just wish that certain coterie of about a half dozen would take advantage of your generosity with bandwidth.

For all those people who have to engage in ridicule, denigration and hot air, please see the sticky at the top of this page.

[pstraten]

Joe,

That's a toughie. Don't know where to place my bet, but it won't be on "never."

Odd, but the diehards around here are the first people on any other forum to tell others "this isn't a democracy; it's a private forum run by "X" and if your don't like his rules, then go elsewhere." So much for practicing what you preach.

[Baldwinbob]

Cheer up Paul, winter is right around the corner. :)


Bob

[pstraten]

Awww, thanks Bob,

Just what I need to cheer myself up--sleet, then snow and months of leaden gray skies.

Thanks for reminding me about reality. :-)

(Thank the Lord I'll have a couple of weeks in San Diego in February)

[Paul1953]

Think of it as a break from the heat:cool:

[pstraten]

Is that how Canadians look at it, Paul?

Now that Bob doused some cold water on me, I'll have to remember that it all comes down to how you look at things.

I feel much calmer already. I can feel the lemony smell of cold air and snowflakes brushing against my face. Feeling tired, so tired....mustn't lie down in that snowbank, but it looks so restful....

[Paul1953]

Some of us do , yes. Not all, but some. If I could get a gig that kept me in the Arctic in summer, then down here in winter, I'd be happy.

I dont advise laying on snow banks tho', despite the fact that is probably the safest place for the inebriated.( not suggesting!!) Unless the plow shows up to wing'em back. Makes for a hard day!

And the other trusim, of course, is "don't eat the yellow snow"

[moose49]

For all those people who have to engage in ridicule, denigration and hot air,

Seems to me your engaging in it to. :D

[rdamurphy]

Yeah, I definitely see a certain kitchen cooking implement referring to another beverage preperation apparatus of being a particular dark pigmented shade.

Robert

[moose49]

Yellow Snow is that like Weasel Dust? :eek:

[rdamurphy]

Yellow snow is where the Huskies go!

Robert

[Hawk]

No, Hawk, it's a real question. I already applauded you on your starting your own site for the disgruntled around here. I just wish that certain coterie of about a half dozen would take advantage of your generosity with bandwidth.

For all those people who have to engage in ridicule, denigration and hot air, please see the sticky at the top of this page.
Just because they're now posting over there, doesn't mean they've abandoned this place, much as you would have liked that.

You get what you want and you're still not happy. You still want to entice them with your triviality.
The finger points back to you, and I'm not talking about the bird finger either. I'm talking about the finger of blame.

[rdamurphy]

Aw, we should more charitable my friends! Paul probably just wants to experience what it's like to actually win a debate! Too bad it's not working...

Robert

[cp5513]

Paul, I’m not sure what your want now. It seems to me that the ‘certain coterie of about a half dozen’ that you speak of have indeed moved on beyond this. The few initial protest posts are understandable, given that a poll was taken that clearly showed the majority of forum members wanted to keep politics in The Yard, only to have it all muted anyways. From what I can tell the problem with the "Sniff, sniff...Ahh" thread was it went south after people began to gloat, 13 year olds decided to wade in, and the eventual name-calling that followed. No politics were ever really mentioned in that tread, so you can’t blame that for its demise.

However from your initial post, you seem to not be satisfied that the ‘half dozen’ are still posting here. Where should they go? For the most part all have contributed significantly to this hobby (check out the file library some time) and have been quite active elsewhere in the forum helping fellow simmers for years now.

You’ve got the ‘New’ Yard now, dispensing with just trivial and utterly boring topics such as health care, the environment, and economical and foreign policy, and it now contains such wildly thrilling topics like banana bread recipes, cars made out of wood, 70/80’s rock band reunions, and an ode to eggplants.

And I wonder how long it will take until the few who won't migrate elsewhere…

I just wish that certain coterie of about a half dozen would take advantage of your generosity with bandwidth.

Am I reading you right in that this is not good enough and you want the ‘coterie of the half dozen’ gone completely?

[rpicardi1]

"You’ve got the ‘New’ Yard now, dispensing with just trivial and utterly boring topics such as health care, the environment, and economical and foreign policy, and it now contains such wildly thrilling topics like banana bread recipes, cars made out of wood, 70/80’s rock band reunions, and an ode to eggplants. "


Meanwhile you are missing out on things like;

Headlines from the UK. “City council fines teen knife attack victim for hazmat contamination after he bleeds all over sidewalk”.

Headline from the US, "Little league game canceled because coach refuses to bench ace pitcher."

Yes, you have the "New Yard" now, the yard of "fairness," punisher of achievement, no mention of certain words that will trigger the alert filters of the mentors on the payroll of a certain powerful billionaire that monitor all forms for political content, a yard that has been neutered of all such content.

There will be no posting of an upcoming annual event in September that I will be photographing as I have the past six years. It would only be locked or deleted when the topic triggers the alert filter. Enjoy the banana bread, the eggplant, vacation photography, car made out of wood - while you still can.

Nothing else here to see or post about anymore. Time to move on.

Avatar deleted in protest. Signature deleted in protest. They promote individualism and are just a waste in bandwidth.

[rdamurphy]

Hmm, you make a good point Ron, let's do a little searching, shall we? I know, let's search the File Library!

Ron Picardi: 98 files match the search criteria

Richard Garber: 102 files match the search criteria

Marc Nelson: 106 files match the search criteria - and that's just here.

Ed Hawkins: 2 files match the search criteria - Also has web site.

Ken Plaza: 21 files match the search criteria

Gary Sprandel: 15 files match the search criteria

Joseph Realmuto: 77 files match the search criteria

Chuck Schneider: 119 files match the search criteria

Robert Murphy: 35 files match the search criteria

Paul Watson: 162 files match the search criteria

Any of those among the half dozen you want to go away? Would you like me to add to the post how many files I found under "Paul Straten?"

To avoid everyone reading this from searching the library and tying up bandwidth, I'll go ahead and post the search results:

"No files match search criteria."

I guess that must be somewhere in the "middle."

Have a nice day! :)

Robert

[cp5513]

Actually my point, but happy that you did the homework for me Robert ;)

Also I'm hurt I wasn't looked up (Ted Kocyla) but I guess I'm more of a junior member than of the select 'Dirty Half Dozen' :D (jee I wish there was a cowboy emoticon with guns blazing available)

[Kenny1234]

You’ve got the ‘New’ Yard now, dispensing with just trivial and utterly boring topics such as health care, the environment, and economical and foreign policy


Those topics, in and of themselves, were not the problem. The problem was nobody could talk about them without a few people getting personal (you know, like that 'Paul winning a debate' crack). So the baby got tossed with the bathwater.

Not helping is this perpetual weird theory that file library contents is supposed to buy people out of the doghouse when their behavior crosses a line.

[rdamurphy]

Actually my point, but happy that you did the homework for me Robert ;)

Also I'm hurt I wasn't looked up (Ted Kocyla) but I guess I'm more of a junior member than of the select 'Dirty Half Dozen' :D (jee I wish there was a cowboy emoticon with guns blazing available)

Sorry about that!

Ted Kocyla: 10 files match the search criteria

My apologies, Kenny, how could I be so lax? I forgot you, too!

No files match search criteria.

Dare I say it, once again, Kenny, I sense a certain kitchen cooking implement referring to another beverage preperation apparatus of being a particular dark pigmented shade.

Robert

[cp5513]

Not helping is this perpetual weird theory that file library contents is supposed to buy people out of the doghouse when their behavior crosses a line.

My point was not that it should be a 'get out of jail free' card for bad behavior, but rather that I read Paul's original statement to be that these half-dozen should no longer even be allowed to post about ANY topic. ...And I have a huge issue with that given the contributions each have made, both in the library and helping fellow simmers over these years.

[moose49]

What part of virtual don't some of you Politicaly correct folks not understand. If you're so fragile that a few rude comments on a internet forum hurt you so badly that you think the posters need to be stifled, don't ever unlock your closet door and go out into the real world. Try a real life sometime if you think you can handle it you might be suprised. Go out and drive a really fast car way over the posted limit, go out to a biker bar and spout some PC idea's if your brave enough. In other words get out and live quit hiding behind your keyboard wishing everyone was just like you. Drink some Whiskey, meet a fast woman, ride a big Harley and live. :D

[Hawk]

Ed Hawkins: 2 files match the search criteria - Also has web site.

Robert
I have 2 files in the library? I didn't know that. They were all supposed to be deleted.
I'll have to check into that.

Edit 1: I see what they are now. They're not mine. They're Paul DeVerter's models, but I'm mentioned. :D

Anything of mine is hosted at my site now.

[rgarber]

From what I understand of the situation that took place that brought about the current circumstances was that it was the number of Alerts being sent upstairs that folded our discussions and not necessarily the content of the posts themselves. So abused was the system that even people got banned for it? But I think however it happened we should applaud the riveting topics about persimmons, eggplant and 'Our Friend The Artichoke'. :rolleyes: Entertaining subjects they are, I am surprised what I detect the unhappiness of some to even live with that, that they use round-about discussions to instigate more trouble like the ahh-choo thread (whatever that stupid topic was about I can't remember) and the stupidity that brought this one up as well. Does anybody remember my post about a certain 'group' that can never be pleased.

Paul, Paul W, Bob... let's stay civil now or one might suspect your true colors are showing... again. :p *finger on the Alert button*

[muskokaandtahoe]

IMO the problem here was not politics, it was people who wrote about politics with such uncivility as to be breathtaking.

For a while I was using what I called the stink test. I should have called it the bigot test. It went like this: Everytime I saw the words conservative or liberal I subsituted black or jew, respectively. If the altered sentance was jaw-droppingly bigoted -- many were -- I made a mental note of who the author was and moved on.

After a while it became quite clear to me who the problem people were and I put those names into my "Ignore Posts By" list. Vast improvement.

It is my belief you can write about politics, even to write disparagingly about certain political points of view, without causing offense. It takes only a few extra seconds of thought. All it requires is a willingness to make the effort.

Problem here was there were just enough people here who seemed to take more pride in being deliberately rude, shouting down everybody and everything with which they disagreed. It was, pure and simple, an exercise in bullying.

I'm rather surprised the mods took so long to put a leash on things. Had I been the list mom, several people would have been shown the door many months ago.

So, FWIW, this conservative gives my thanks to Nels and the Mods for cleaning this place up. For too long, it STANK.

[chucksc]

Those topics, in and of themselves, were not the problem. The problem was nobody could talk about them without a few people getting personal (you know, like that 'Paul winning a debate' crack). So the baby got tossed with the bathwater.

Not helping is this perpetual weird theory that file library contents is supposed to buy people out of the doghouse when their behavior crosses a line.
Kenny Kenny Kenny - There you go again!

Your post is so disengeniously dishonest as to be breath taking!

Just so you do take this personnally, if you were ever standing in front of me and said the things you did about me being a leach and load on productive society that you did in PMs and on the board (all the while demonstrating your personal lack of intestinal content by hiding behind fake names) there is a real possibility you would have needed dental surgery! Take that as a promise there sport!

BTW - shouldn't you be in Denver worshipping at the alter of change? or did George S. forget to buy you a ticket?

Sheesh! talk about brass b@lls....

[rdamurphy]

Dave, as someone that I suspect you're referring to, I have a couple of times taken "breaks" from the Yard when I sense that I've gotten too emotionally involved in certain arguments. And, Dave, perhaps, if you don't have me on ignore, you'll see that I agree that maybe the elimination of political and religious posts may have indeed been a good idea for all concerned, at least until it cools down a bit. While I don't currently hold to the Utopian theories of the Candidate currently in Second Place in the Polls, I do believe you and I can agree, wholeheartedly, on one thing.

Elimination of P&R may have been a good idea, but allowing people to gloat about it certainly isn't.

'nuff said.

Robert

[rpicardi1]

Originally Posted by Kenny1234 http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/showthread.php?p=1424043#post1424043)
Those topics, in and of themselves, were not the problem. The problem was nobody could talk about them without a few people getting personal (you know, like that 'Paul winning a debate' crack). So the baby got tossed with the bathwater.

Gentlemen, I have to agree with Kenny on this one. Too much emotion was getting involved on those debates. That coupled with a rash of PM when the agenda of someone's favorite party was being challenged has resulted in the current censorship.

Not helping is this perpetual weird theory that file library contents is supposed to buy people out of the doghouse when their behavior crosses a line.

The point of the contribution to the file library was more of a statement to the interest in Train-Sim rather then just only posting in The Yard and stirring up trouble.

Lets everyone take a step back and think things through before further posting on this topic, unless, or course, the goal is to get the thread locked.

[westerngy]

Some of you have very valid points.Dave Nelson so true as if the duscussions had been kept civil I doubt the censorship would have come down as it did.This happened over time and us MODS got tired of the Alerts and PM's so no one was singled out a blanket rule was put in place.
We up here in CDN maybe facing an election come Oct but with our structured British Palimentary way there's a limit to spending and time line of 5 weeks for the Parties to gear up and try and win us over or lie the best.
Politics is a very touchy subject to talk about as it usually turns sour as it did here with the name calling being a part of it.I wonder what kids at times think when grouwn ups resort to the types of name calling that was going on...what runs through there minds...
As an outsider on the US election up coming I feel sorry as I personlly don't care for either.
Maybe a President and Congress that stood up to CORP greed is whats needed but that went out in the 60's

Keep the name calling out and keep it CIVIL and we'll see how it goes.

[rgarber]

I find it funny how some of us talk about politics like we can somehow insulate ourselves from the very thing ultimately that start 'real' wars. Why would you think it be any less different in here? It is in the nature of politics that the tendency to disagree is bridled so as not to take up arms against each other. But we will -- and we do -- disagree. No amount of civility will overcome the passion to be 'right.' No amount of civility will overcome those who can't resist the temption to be passionate. These are what 'causes' are made up of. With every force there is an equal an opposite reaction and so conflict is inevitable when politics are involved.

They say, "you don't want to join this model railroad club for the politics." And you stay away because you know what that means. Being in community bands, guess what? Politics is there too and so many of us stay away from that as well. We all know what it means.

It was always a mistake from day one when this forum allowed political discussion and I said so from the start. We all can concur this hobby is best served without the politics. We can all be equally 'best served' without those who would instigate new terrors by clamming up themselves about 'how peaceful' things have become as if they themself never had any part in those past hostilities.

[agentatascadero]

IMO the problem here was not politics, it was people who wrote about politics with such uncivility as to be breathtaking.

For a while I was using what I called the stink test. I should have called it the bigot test. It went like this: Everytime I saw the words conservative or liberal I subsituted black or jew, respectively. If the altered sentance was jaw-droppingly bigoted -- many were -- I made a mental note of who the author was and moved on.

After a while it became quite clear to me who the problem people were and I put those names into my "Ignore Posts By" list. Vast improvement.

It is my belief you can write about politics, even to write disparagingly about certain political points of view, without causing offense. It takes only a few extra seconds of thought. All it requires is a willingness to make the effort.

Problem here was there were just enough people here who seemed to take more pride in being deliberately rude, shouting down everybody and everything with which they disagreed. It was, pure and simple, an exercise in bullying.

I'm rather surprised the mods took so long to put a leash on things. Had I been the list mom, several people would have been shown the door many months ago.

So, FWIW, this conservative gives my thanks to Nels and the Mods for cleaning this place up. For too long, it STANK.
Well said, and Thank You, Dave. I really do hope most, if not all, of us are here for Railroading, and simming....or why does this excellent site even exist? I would also like to extend thanks to those who left the Yard for other forums after it became necessary for members to behave in a more socialized manner. Just like the member who suggested "go visit a biker bar", perhaps an unconscious reference to the atmosphere at the Yard....AA

[rdamurphy]

C'mon, let's clear the air a bit. We've argued politics, religion, psuedo-science, etc, for years, and it's gotten quite hot and difficult to breathe through the flames quite a few times. And then the participants would be seen happily chatting together about a TS subject on another area of the forums the very same day. We did it for a long time. Heck, sometimes, "adversaries" would go off topic in the middle of a thread and talk about something else, and then get back to the argument!

Recently, a limited number of people, I've heard only 2 or 3, decided to use the alert button to shut down debate they didn't agree with, and disrupted the board and abused the system to the point that they got what they wanted.

Fine. Whatever. In the finest tradition of Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, etc, et. al, if you don't like the dissent, shoot the dissenter. The fact of the matter is that certain people have used what is often phrased as "the tyranny of the minority" to get their way.

You can sugar-coat it any way you want to, but this thread, and the one before it, are no different than any of the political so-called "flaming" as in it is just another way to bash fellow members, and stick out your tongue and say "nanananananah, we shut you up!"

I note the original "author" of this thread hasn't been back to revisit what he started.... Odd, that. I guess maybe it's not good enough to just get politics and religious discussions banned, it seems that certain people would prefer to get the participants banned as well, by continuously formenting this type of inflammatory posting, trying to get flamed so they can furiously pound the Alert button again...

Robert

[Hawk]

Recently, a limited number of people, I've heard only 2 or 3, decided to use the alert button to shut down debate they didn't agree with, and disrupted the board and abused the system to the point that they got what they wanted.
Robert
...and one of them got banned. I guess that was just a little icing on the cake. :D

[chucksc]

...and one of them got banned. I guess that was just a little icing on the cake. :D
I think she quit on her own before she was outed.

[rgarber]

And if rumors are correct, let's not be timid and get it out in the open that another of perpetrators behind this alert abuse was someone who wasn't even posting in the Yard. :rolleyes:

That said, I've said my piece many times that I don't think those kinds of discussions are best served here in the Yard. But the way this subversive behavior was carried out, I believe it has left some with the impression that it was just the 'perkiness' :p of the discussion here as the reason for the clamp-down. Apparently there was a whole lot more going on behind the scenes.

So there! :p

[kevarc]

I hit the button a few times, when I thought things were really spinning out of control and after things had been posted about keeping things out of politics. Or a couple of people diverted topics to their own purposes.

[Baldwinbob]

I don't get this at all. Maybe I'm dumb as a bucket of hammers or my reading comprehension is below par but where did Paul say someone shouldn't post here?

I've read through this thing 4 times and I don't see it. I'm thinking he meant anyone who wants to post about politics should go to Hawk's site. That's all I see. What am I missing?


Bob

[rdamurphy]

You have to read it in combination with the other, locked, thread to get the whole gist of it.

That's my point, though, Kevin, as Richard pointed out, he, and you, were never shy about saying what was on your minds, and never hid behind anything, you, and others, were always up front when you thought someone was out of line.

In other words, you "agreed to disagree" with different postings. That's the way we did things, and, most often, some of the hottest threads turned into silliness by the end, and migrated off the front page, no harm, no foul.

Most of us are perfectly content with Hawk's forum, and "migrating" over there, but still, a lot of people, myself included, toned things down on the first warning, and are just a tad miffed at the idea that it wasn't actually a problem, the problem was with a small handfull - or less - of people, most of which aren't even involved with the whole train simulator thing. I have to question if someone NEVER posts in any other area, whether or not they even own a copy of MSTS! I can vouch for the fact that people that have the FL filled with stuff do!

And, apologies to Vince and Paul1953, since they should have been included in my list, Vince for NEC 4.0 and Paul1953 for his excellent repaints. Just wanted to get that in there...

Robert

[kevarc]

I know. There are a couple of kiddies who came in and started to whine and when I slapped the one silly, he started. You want to play with the big dogs, you need a think skin and have a nasty bite. The problem with 2 of the main ones is they both are dumber than a fence post.

There were more than a few threads that had a chance to be usefull, but certain people kept diverting them for their own agenda, and I mean those on boths sides of the aisle.

A person takes a shot at me, no matter how sugar coated he/she/it makes it, I will bite back.

I am blunt and to the point, that is just the way I am and I do not suffer fools or idiots.

A couple of folks I had huge wars with in the past have become good friends. Don Shepley - he and I went at it tooth and nail, and hammer and claws and flame throwers is a good example.

The big thing before all the mud settled was people thought they could be cute with code words. I don't hang with that, if I can't call a idiot and idiot, he sure as hell is not going to get away with.

The thing is, when we left the Yard, that was put behind. Well, except for some of the true idiots, I have to abuse them al the way. :)

[Paul1953]

No apology neccessary, Robert, I see my name at the bottom there.

[rdamurphy]

Yes, you're right! I did include you! Apologies to Vince, then, creator of arguably the best NEC route in MSTS history!

Robert

[pstraten]

Well 42 posts and not locked yet. I have to admit I'm proud of you guys. Maybe you are growing up.

People seem to have blamed me for about everything except the Russian invasion of Georgia, and made some irrelevant personal cracks, but that's OK by me.

I was out of whatever happened here to swing the pendulum just as far in the opposite direction--entered the hospital for a week on July 3 and didn't come here more than twice the whole month after that. And I've been sick in bed for the last two days, and that, Robert, is why I haven't been around. Don't know as I'd really want to reply to some derogatory comments, anyway. As for any "finger of shame" being pointed at me, well sorry, that's utter nonsense.

What I am suggesting is not that anyone leave (as far as I know I have never pressed the alert button the whole time I've been here), but that people abide by the new ground rules and simply take their comments on politics (or religion, for that matter) elsewhere, as Paul W. said.

It's time to get over the "attitude" and the sour grapes. Because politics is for the time being banned does not equate with the notion that there is nothing left to talk about but artichokes.

[chucksc]

Well 42 posts and not locked yet. I have to admit I'm proud of you guys. Maybe you are growing up.

People seem to have blamed me for about everything except the Russian invasion of Georgia, and made some irrelevant personal cracks, but that's OK by me.

I was out of whatever happened here to swing the pendulum just as far in the opposite direction--entered the hospital for a week on July 3 and didn't come here more than twice the whole month after that. And I've been sick in bed for the last two days, and that, Robert, is why I haven't been around. Don't know as I'd really want to reply to some derogatory comments, anyway. As for any "finger of shame" being pointed at me, well sorry, that's utter nonsense.

What I am suggesting is not that anyone leave (as far as I know I have never pressed the alert button the whole time I've been here), but that people abide by the new ground rules and simply take their comments on politics (or religion, for that matter) elsewhere, as Paul W. said.

It's time to get over the "attitude" and the sour grapes. Because politics is for the time being banned does not equate with the notion that there is nothing left to talk about but artichokes.
I don't think you were on the list of alerters Paul...

[pstraten]

Robert,

I am sorry I don't have any inclusions in the file library. I happen to be a total klutz at 3D models, repaints, or route building, although I'm a fair hand at woodworking. Too bad I can't show you the mountain dulcimer I built from scratch and plans.

We each have our own talents, though. I think if you could look for my name in a lot of forums from this site's inception, I have tried to give as much advice to folks as within the scope of the meager talents I was granted.

[Hawk]

As for any "finger of shame" being pointed at me, well sorry, that's utter nonsense.
Of course not. Not to you anyway, but you're the one that keeps trying to 'rub it in' and won't let the subject pass on it's way.
This thread is a perfect example. The other one got locked so you just had to start a new one. :rolleyes:

[pstraten]

Geez, Hawk,

Get over it, can you? I was ready to let the whole thing evaporate by post number 7: "thanks for reminding me about reality..."

OK, I was sick and cranky, all right?

Guess you've never had a bad day.

P.S. And my abject apologies to everyone who got their underwear in a bunch over it all. But it seems to demonstrate that there are still things to have an argument about. :-)

[Hawk]

I'd be just tickled to get over it.
It just seemed to me you were trying to rub it in. Maybe I misunderstood you. I've had a lot of bad days myself lately.

So! What do we argue about next? Apples? Oranges? How 'bout fluoridated water? :D

[jtr1962]

So! What do we argue about next? Apples? Oranges? How 'bout fluoridated water? :D
Nah, let's fight over the best flavor of Ramen soup! To me they all taste pretty much the same, but I'd give the beef a slight edge.

[Hawk]

Actually, if you trash the seasoning packet that comes with Rameon and use your own seasonings, you'd be surprised at what you can come up with.
For me there's just too much MSG in their seasoning packet.

[Jim Prower]

I've never had it, but There's a certain "ninja" in a certain Japanese cartoon who seems to be obsessed with the stuff...

[pstraten]

Sounds like the notion that now we can't talk about politics only artichokes. apples, oranges, or ramen and soba noodles are left as topics of conversation.

Good Lord, can't anyone think outside the box? How about computer programming, slack guitar technique, or belt versus orbital sanders?

[Jim Prower]

Or this guy.

http://www.autospectator.com/cars/files/images/2009-Nissan-GT-R-30.jpg

[rgarber]

I have a recipe for top Ramen that's pretty good. First get rid of the packet. They make the noodles. Then after they are done, add salt, add butter, add garlic powder, and onion powder. Then add some cinnamon powder and you have a delicious treat! My own recipe.

(Am practicing using dictation software, pretty cool!)

[pstraten]

Myself, I prefer to add my own mixture: a capful of sherry, some dried Italian herbs, Indonesian Sambal Oelek, a bit of dark soy sauce, Nuoc Mam, and a little oyster sauce.

But, as most people around here can tell you, I'm...well...odd. And that, I suppose, is being generous to myself...

Oh--I forgot the finely chopped onions and a bit of minced garlic.

Oh and p.s.: add a wedge of lime that you squeezed into it.

Too bad I can't tell you the proportions, but I just eyeball everything. I was taught to cook by watching my grandmother, and she never (except for some finicky baking recipes) measured anything. Just eyeball, fingers, taste and smell with her.

[rdamurphy]

Sounds like the notion that now we can't talk about politics only artichokes. apples, oranges, or ramen and soba noodles are left as topics of conversation.

Good Lord, can't anyone think outside the box? How about computer programming, slack guitar technique, or belt versus orbital sanders?

If those subjects were interesting, we would've talked about them before. I actually don't quite understand the logic:

A: Certain people want to talk politics.
B: Nobody is required to read any or all of the threads.
C: Certain people don't want to talk politics.
D: Conclusion: Nobody can talk politics.

A rather odd conclusion, isn't it? A more logical conclusion would be:

D: Conclusion: People who don't want to talk politics should avoid reading threads about politics.

But then, that would require personal responsibility rather than having someone else take care of that for you, wouldn't it? The two fundamental differences of political philosophy in America today...

The other, rather odd, leap of logic that I observed from this whole thing is that the people who objected to said threads always managed to post their point of view before pressing the Alert Button...

Robert

[pstraten]

A: Certain people want to talk politics.
B: Nobody is required to read any or all of the threads.
C: Certain people don't want to talk politics.
D: Conclusion: Nobody can talk politics.

A. All well and good--but apparently (from what I can gather) they couldn't do so without getting personal and nasty about it.

B. True.

C. Well ho hum. Seems to be a fait accompli. This apparently is no longer the venue for ridiculing people's politics, so how about getting over it?

D. Yup. And just who is to blame for that, Robert?

P.S. See my original comment: on any other board the sentiment seems to be that this is X's shebang (in this case, Nels) to do with as he pleases. After all, it is his bandwidth we are using, isn't it? He decided things got out of hand. So live with it.

And I'll reiterate, I haven't pressed the alert button and don't give a rat's bazoo about what anyone choses to say. The constant barrage of slurs just got tiresome for me, and turned the Yard from a pleasure into a "waste"land.

[rdamurphy]

C. Well ho hum. Seems to be a fait accompli. This apparently is no longer the venue for ridiculing people's politics, so how about getting over it?


I'm not the one that started this thread, am I?

Robert

[pstraten]

No. I've already admitted that in a moment of crankiness I posted. But look at what happened---all these posts and not locked yet! That is a victory in itself, toward a more civilized Yard.

Be of good cheer, Robert. I'm sure you'll find plenty to complain about.

[rgarber]

"D: Conclusion: People who don't want to talk politics should avoid reading threads about politics."

Okay, that's good advice but here's the problem in that. I can relate to what Paul is saying... this time... because I got compelled to get involved down here because I was being emailed there was Christian bashing going on down here. There hasn't been any of that as of late, and I am thankful. But the point of it is, if it's your idealogy that's getting bashed, you are compelled to defend. What choice do you have? And we have had some people, ringers I say, who were right good at baiting people into a fight.

Frankly, I have customers on both sides of these issues and I would prefer not to push anyone away from my routes because of my beliefs or politics. But if I'm baited into these kinds of things, I run the risk of alienating the very people I also seek to entertain with my routes. This is my whole point. I can't be saying "come run my routes" and then tell'em their wrong-headed.

Just like there are people now who won't touch my toys because of my politics, I am the same with them. This is not good for the hobby. Fortunately we're only talking a fraction of the community but it shouldn't have to happen and I should've never felt compelled to join into the fray within a community I never had anything to do with before.

It's the same thing with movies. Ah, here's a good one you say, except for that subliminal message. I don't watch it then. Yeah it's my perrogative to not watch but wouldn't it be nice if they just left out their politics, period. Makes for better entertainment I say.

People in poltics just never seem to get why the rest of us prefer they keep it to themselves. Okay, bomb Pearl Harbor again and I say let's fight. But until then politics and politicians are those kids I remember from high school I wouldn't spend a moment with. Same here. We all agree politics is no good here so why are we still talking about it?

[rdamurphy]

Hmmm, good question!

BTW, the "moment of weakness" excuse rings hollow, being as this is the second thread started, not the first...

But then, I agree with Mr. Garber, I would hate to think someone would hesitate to download something I made for the FL because they don't like my stance on politics. I suppose I have a hard time realizing that most people don't compartmentalize things as well as I do.

Robert

[pstraten]

Ahhh, you are quite right, Rich.

It is hard, very hard, to "decouple" yourself from deep-seated beliefs. Frankly, I was surprised to come back here and find out what happened. But I think Nels and his moderators probably took the best course for the time being, though I hope they will reassess things in the future. I have to admit, the whole Yard seemed to have been squashed on account of some overzealous people. On the other hand, I understand it, because as others have alluded, this place began to have a certain "odor" about it.

And I haven't always felt very charitable about you, but I would be the first to tell anyone that Ohio Rails and Retro Metro are the greatest thing since both sliced bread and French toast. Although, we should also mention the PO&N (eek--sorry!)...

[cp5513]

Richard, Robert, ...I could care less about political views, you guys make great MSTS stuff. And regardless of when our paths crossed here, I know you're both good people. Actually most people here in the Yard are, just politics can become a very heated topic in a very short amount of time.

BTW I own Cumberland and what a beautiful route. I didn't realize it went to Loyall KY - I've been there! If I had a slide scanner I could post shots from around the yard. :) Sorry you emailed me at the time of purchase as to what I thought of it & never got back to ya. Now you know. ;)

[rpicardi1]

If I had a slide scanner I could post shots from around the yard.

Check the rummage sales. I got lucky last week and bought one, a Smartscan 3600, still in the box for $40

[rgarber]

...And regardless of when our paths crossed here...

This is my point exactly. I don't know who this fella is. Then again I just might. I recognize the real name (i.e. profile). On the forums, folks go by handles. In emails, they use their real names. I can't tell when I'm talking to someone I know on the forums or vice versa. For my situation this whole fuss of the Yard is bad news because I may insult someone I would have rathered not.

And this is no different for you folks either. Behind that handle just maybe somebody you'd rather get along with, than not.

Back in the days of Surfliner I watched good people ripping each other apart because they fell on different sides of the issues there. We got a good hobby here and for the next year it's up to us to keep it going til the new stuff comes out. It makes so much more sense if we gotta be at somebody's throat, that it not be done within the boundaries of any of our train forums.

And thanks y'all. Appreciate ya saying those nice things.

[mjs2101]

Just like there are people now who won't touch my toys because of my politics

This is something I simply don't understand about people. What ever happened to respecting people for who THEY are and what THEY believe, not for what you think they should be and believe? That is what makes this place so much fun, that we are all different and think differently from each other! Tis a lot better than the alternative, "Resistance if futile! You will be one with the collective!". :D

Mykel

[jhilden2]

Paul S - Congrats, it appears this thread weathered the storm and looks to be a survivor. Also, congrats to any who bet it would not get closed - the 99/1 odds is a good payout!:D

[rdamurphy]

I dunno, 99/1 odds will never payout, at least until never is over!

Robert

[jhilden2]

I am not stranger to horseracing; in fact I made a living at the track for a few years while in school. Saw plenty of 99/1’s win, but as a regular bet they rarely do win in regards to how many enter the gate. I have a horseracing database that has every North American race in it for the past eight years and it just reached the 5 GB mark. I did a query and it displayed that if you bet every 99/1 horses entered for all those years, you would be down about $5K.

As to the thread, you are absolutely right, that is why I set the odds for never to be 99/1. All it would take was for someone to shout out: “Democrats, Republicans, or Liberals, Conservatives!"

I guess you could get aways with SEX, DRUGS, AND ROCK N ROLL!

[rpicardi1]

To protect this thread, no links will be posted. Just do the research on the latest political news unrelated to the hurricane or conventions and you will clearly see which side has no shame.

That is but one example why the politics have become so nasty the past few months resulting in so many post being locked and deleted.

[rdamurphy]

I think that's pretty clear, Ron, in the attacks on one of the VP candidates, and the incredible lack of tact and clear ---ism in them. I remember that members of a certain Party have always made their kids immune to any press coverage or criticism, but now, the attacks on the candidates children border on absolute cruelty...

Imagine, blaming a parent for the fact that their child has a birth defect... That's lower than low.

Robert

[pstraten]

Joe,

If anything, I set out to prove that it was still possible to have a genuine argument, not a scurrilous quarrel, about things around here.