Q: How long does it take hurricane evacuees to completely trash a shelter?

[Andy J]

A: 4 days

http://www.waaytv.com/global/story.asp?s=8981423

[rdamurphy]

Hurricanes are Nature's way of taking out the garbage. We should stop interfering with Mother Nature...

Robert

[kevarc]

That is what happens when you get NO trash in your area.

[Baldwinbob]

To the first two posters: To the woodshed for you! Not sure what Kevin meant.

From the short article you have no idea what these people went through. ONLY 4 days with maybe the shirt on your back? And then all these people in a gym with who knows what facilities? They left a mess....no kidding. I'd guess they forgot to take their 409 cleaner with them.

From the article:

Sryinge....could this be from a diabetic?

Dirty Underware....stuff happens.

Condom.....hats off to him, he didn't want to soil his Minnesota Twins jersey.


Andy, I think these guys from the republican side have slanted your view. I'm hoping you'll come around.


Bob

[rdamurphy]

He meant "New Orleans."

If everyone took what they brought, guess what? No mess!

$20,000 is an awful big clean up...

Robert

[Andy J]

Andy, I think these guys from the republican side have slanted your view. I'm hoping you'll come around.


Bob

No, Bob, my view is "my view" it bothers me, when folks take advantage, a $20,000 clean up for a 4 day stay, is WAY out of line...We are not talking about a general crowd clean up here, sweep up the mess, and empty the garbage cans sort of clean up...

They are talking about "bio hazards"....That is a whole different class of clean up.

What ever happened to having a bit of pride? My family have stayed with friends, for days at a time, all we left behind was stripped beds, with the linens and blankets ready to be washed.. My wife even offered to wash them herself, The rest of the rooms where spotless..

Heck, on my recent extended beach vacation, we left the suite, with kitchen that we stayed at, in BETTER shape, than when we got their. (minus the laundry)

To do any less, would have been disrespectful. I am certain I could have you (heck most anyone in here) over to my home, for 4 days, and you would do the same.

I understand that folks crammed in a shelter, may not be able to keep things as clean as that, but what ever happened to trying? At least the "diabetics" should have kept their used needles away from kids, and folks that have "accidents" in their drawers, should discreetly toss them in the trash, not put them on display for all to see. I won't make a comment about the condom, besides thank god, hopefully Romeo wont knock her up.

[pstraten]

Hmph. $20 K sounds like chump change these days, considering what governments spend per diem--or what Americans spend on "bottled water" (the biggest scam ever invented) for that matter.

[rdamurphy]

Ever notice what Evian spells backwards?

Robert

[mjs2101]

You should work at a hotel. To see what some people do to rooms that they pay to stay in, it is not too hard to imagine what they will do when they are getting a free place to stay!

Mykel

[pstraten]

I believe it Mykel! And I think politicians are big offenders too. Seems to me I read about one (and his entourage) who got barred from a classy hotel in Paris for stealing the towels. Of course, it was just some no-account VP, but...

[rdamurphy]

Gosh, Paul, for one of the loudest mouths in the "WE DON'T WANT POLITICS IN THE YARD ANYMORE" contingent, you sure seem to take your shots...

Robert

[pstraten]

Yeah, well it's late at night Robert. Say--you ever heard about the pot calling the kettle black?

FYI--I just got tired of it and stopped coming around. Then I went into the hospital and missed all the fun and games around here, and was astounded when I came back. But, like did I touch a nerve or something? I mean, just do a search of notorious politicians and their antics in an any country going back about 2,000 years or so. Ever hear of Nero or Caligula? Gosh,to hear you talk, you would think I have some sort of agenda in mind...

[rdamurphy]

No, it's simple. Politics have been banned. The people that got them banned have since completely disappeared, and others that didn't disappear have posted "gloating" threads. Yet we still see people taking "parting" shots.

So, here's my parting shot: I seem to recall a previous Administration that vandalized the White House when they left... I'm sure having the carpet cleaned is probably standard procedure...

Robert

[Andy J]

No, it's simple. Politics have been banned. The people that got them banned have since completely disappeared, and others that didn't disappear have posted "gloating" threads. Yet we still see people taking "parting" shots.

So, here's my parting shot: I seem to recall a previous Administration that vandalized the White House when they left... I'm sure having the carpet cleaned is probably standard procedure...

Robert

God, the mods are going to be on this thread like "Ike on Tina Turner".....Or is that like "Ike on Texas"??? :confused:

Aw dang it, now I am confused, I need to go to bed.

[pstraten]

Yup, About your 152nd parting shot.

[rdamurphy]

I never objected to it, nor did I ever complain about it, nor did I ever start any http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/showthread.php?t=274163 threads.

Have a nice day!

Robert

[pstraten]

Oh well, hope you have a good night's sleep, Robert :-)

[Hawk]

The ones that complained about the political discussion only wanted to get rid of those that didn't agree with them, not end the topic altogether, or so it would seem. :D

[rpicardi1]

Before this post gets locked, poof.

The mess at the New Orleans Superdome is but one example of how the non achievers, who have been given everything that they need in exchange for their votes, will behave.

Local examples;

Daniel Heights public housing. I had to do a service call there one day. You had to hold your nose as you waded through the trash on the floor in an apartment with three generations living in it and the pre mature babies being held by the teen girls. A hole was kicked in the wall to allow access to the apartment next door. Daniel Heights was demolished in 2002 after being condemned.

A family in need; Christmas was given to a 19 year old mother of four who was living in a subsidized apartment. She was expecting a fifth child. Father unknown.

One East Side house I visited to take care of a complaint on some cheap furniture my feet were sticking to the floor as I followed a path to the bedroom dodging the cockroaches.

A badly overweight woman living in a subsidised apartment was complaining about a bed. I couldn't find enough room among the pop cans, junk food bags, cigarette butts, and pile of pill bottles, to find room to set the matt off to see what the problem was. The floor was way too dirty to even look under the bed.

In short, People that are too lazy to help themselves and have everything given to them by the Government will act and live like pigs.

[rdamurphy]

My in-laws own some condos that they rent, Section 8. (Government assisted, OK, Government paid for, their "rent" is usually $25 a month.) I go over to fix a garbage disposal of one woman, while I'm working, two young men come over, they all sit on the couch and light up a joint, while I'm there! Then she complained because I dropped a dime on her. Said she didn't know I was the owners son-in-law! Another tenant at a small apartment building they own had her brother sleeping in the cellar. He wouldn't stay in the apartment with her. And the winner: This chick and her boyfriend (who wasn't supposed to be living there), forgot their keys, so they ripped the entire front door out of the wall, frame and all, and about a foot of the wall opposite the hinge side. Had to replace the entire door, including the frame, and repair the wall.

Oh, yeah, then there was the tenant the complained to the Housing Department because her Central Air didn't work. When I went over to look at it, the entire "repair" consisted of showing her how to turn on the thermostat. She didn't even know there was one...

Robert

[Kenny1234]

The initial story was designed to put a certain spin on the debate, designed to paint a certain part of the population a certain way. So much for a media that only slants one way, eh?

As for the cost, any institution such as a college would be legally bound to do a cleanup job so as to protect their students from any biological aftermath. Just like a hotel that has to change the sheets. This only shows how the typical cleanup job for a typical hotel room is totally inadequate. Who on here cant recall those 20/20 type expose shows where they took black light into clean hotel rooms showing what is on those pillows and bedspreads and carpets that don't get washed in between room guests for profit reasons.... Most hotels wouldn't be able to stay in business if it wasn't for you glorious guys putting yourselves in harms way, using the same bedsheet and pillows as the last guy with nothing but a fluff-up job in between uses.

[RobertVA]

Before this post gets locked, poof.

The mess at the New Orleans Superdome is but one example of how the non achievers, who have been given everything that they need in exchange for their votes, will behave.

Local examples;

Daniel Heights public housing. I had to do a service call there one day. You had to hold your nose as you waded through the trash on the floor in an apartment with three generations living in it and the pre mature babies being held by the teen girls. A hole was kicked in the wall to allow access to the apartment next door. Daniel Heights was demolished in 2002 after being condemned.

A family in need; Christmas was given to a 19 year old mother of four who was living in a subsidized apartment. She was expecting a fifth child. Father unknown.

One East Side house I visited to take care of a complaint on some cheap furniture my feet were sticking to the floor as I followed a path to the bedroom dodging the cockroaches.

A badly overweight woman living in a subsidised apartment was complaining about a bed. I couldn't find enough room among the pop cans, junk food bags, cigarette butts, and pile of pill bottles, to find room to set the matt off to see what the problem was. The floor was way too dirty to even look under the bed.

In short, People that are too lazy to help themselves and have everything given to them by the Government will act and live like pigs.


My in-laws own some condos that they rent, Section 8. (Government assisted, OK, Government paid for, their "rent" is usually $25 a month.) I go over to fix a garbage disposal of one woman, while I'm working, two young men come over, they all sit on the couch and light up a joint, while I'm there! Then she complained because I dropped a dime on her. Said she didn't know I was the owners son-in-law! Another tenant at a small apartment building they own had her brother sleeping in the cellar. He wouldn't stay in the apartment with her. And the winner: This chick and her boyfriend (who wasn't supposed to be living there), forgot their keys, so they ripped the entire front door out of the wall, frame and all, and about a foot of the wall opposite the hinge side. Had to replace the entire door, including the frame, and repair the wall.

Oh, yeah, then there was the tenant the complained to the Housing Department because her Central Air didn't work. When I went over to look at it, the entire "repair" consisted of showing her how to turn on the thermostat. She didn't even know there was one...

Robert

Do these subsidy programs provide participating landlords/owners any security and cleaning deposit? Are abusing tenants denied further participation or suspended from the subsidy programs for a while? How do they persuade landlords to participate if they don't have such provisions?

I'm curious about whether any action was taken against these tenants towards evicting them for breach of their lease, judgment for collection of cleanup costs, and/or not refunding any damage/cleaning deposit.

I'm thinking any person encountering accumulations of tenant generated waste , insect/rodent infestations and avoidable odors while making repairs or delivering goods should be allowed to turn around and refuse to do them until the situation is corrected. The tenant should be considered in breach until they correct any situation in their control (housekeeping, illegal activities, intentional damage/misuse including puting things down drains/toilets that shouldn't be there). Of course there would be some situations where professionals should be expected to finish their work when the hazard/unsanitary condition requires professional repairs and the tenant has done reasonable housekeeping unrelated to a malfunction the landlord should be responsible for.

[Kenny1234]

Who says they have to take section 8 tenants? We dont take any in our rentals. Section 8 has morphed from being welfare for the tenant, to more of a bribe paid to the owner, if you will, encouraging owners to accept less desirable tenants. Your relatives' experiences are simply the cost they bear in trade for wanting an income thats financially backed by the stability of the US government as opposed to the vulnerabilities of the free market.



My in-laws own some condos that they rent, Section 8. (Government assisted, OK, Government paid for, their "rent" is usually $25 a month.) I go over to fix a garbage disposal of one woman, while I'm working, two young men come over, they all sit on the couch and light up a joint, while I'm there! Then she complained because I dropped a dime on her. Said she didn't know I was the owners son-in-law! Another tenant at a small apartment building they own had her brother sleeping in the cellar. He wouldn't stay in the apartment with her. And the winner: This chick and her boyfriend (who wasn't supposed to be living there), forgot their keys, so they ripped the entire front door out of the wall, frame and all, and about a foot of the wall opposite the hinge side. Had to replace the entire door, including the frame, and repair the wall.

Oh, yeah, then there was the tenant the complained to the Housing Department because her Central Air didn't work. When I went over to look at it, the entire "repair" consisted of showing her how to turn on the thermostat. She didn't even know there was one...

Robert

[rpicardi1]

The Federal Government was the landlord in Daniel Heights as is usually the case with public housing. In addition, the other examples were in what is called slum housing, older homes that are owned by the landlord, usually some corrupt local official. Those houses are run into the ground while the corrupt landlord rakes in the subsidized profits. When the tenet finally leaves, the house is either torched or abandoned.

[Baldwinbob]

I don't know why this reporter's story bothers me so much, maybe lack of details. Especially about the 'trashed' statement.

They don't say if the syringe was used or not or where it was. On the floor, on someone's cot? I don't suppose they had dressers for 300 people in a gym.

The condom. Used or in spanking new condition? :)

I said 'dirty underware' where the article said used underware. My bad. Doesn't mean there's a load in there.

As far as the cost goes I think 8 words sum that up pretty well, "Federal Emergency Management Agency will foot the bill." YeeeHaaa......government job....$$$$$$$$.

Oh well, I think after reading the article about 5 times the reporter was making it sound as bad as possible. I tried to email the reporter but no address comes up.

That's my 2 cents, again.

Bob

[NorfolkSouthern_37]

what you are dealing with in regards to MOST of the people in the New Orleans area who are going to want assistance are, put bluntly, a bunch of lowlifes who want the feds to give it up to them in any and all circumstances whether there is a hurricane or not. the hurricanes have only brought this to some peoples attention while the media trys to show these poor people who have nothing and need to traverse flooded streets carrying their (stolen) TV. being a local let me just tell you that 90% of what you all saw on the TV about what happens or happened here during Katrina or Gustav was false. the media shows what they want you to see as i am sure if you have half a brain you can figure that out. first i want to say in regards to Katrins, that New Orleans WAS NOT hit by this storm, there was little concern for it, and the city was grazed on the west end of the storm, sure it rained, and sure it flooded on the first day, but it ALWAYS floods in New Orleans if it rains hard - understand that in some places it is -19 elevation (i work for a surveying firm that works for the army corps. so dont question it). most underpasses and low areas flood regularly, the trick is keeping those pumps on. the second day brought the part that nobody expected, a levee broke and spilled floodwaters all over the city - there was the problem. i was in Mississippi when Katrina hit, and i experienced it head on in the direct path - got the calm of the eye and then straight back to hurricane hell. it was fierce, and MS took a far worse beating than anything close that happened in New Orleans, but you did not get that picture from the news. everyone knows what Katrina did to New Orleans all over the world, yet the entire MS coastline was flattened literally to nothing. you do not hear about that still. the reason? there were no 'needy' government-dependant deadbeats to cover in MS. you might think that is harsh, but you have to understand that is how an overwhelming percentage of the population is there in NO. i think that the assistance is good, and required, however i think that it is taken advantage of by these kinds of people way too often. these are more or less trained federal aid opportunists. i cant say that i did not need aid, and got $900 to live on while i was displaced to SC 4 days after the storm because there was no electricity. and i had to replace my car alternator that broke while i was there, thank God i had that assistance. but i saw those who stood in line with me at the red cross take their hundreds of donated dollars that they bitched about not getting enough of and go by silly things like jewelry and useless appliances - taking advantage. with Gustav there was very little or no damage here. downed power mostly due to the horrible maintenace of the power companies (actually no maintenance, they just wait till a hurricane comes to get govt subsidies but thats another topic). What i found appalling with Gustav was the media flocking to New Orleans just hoping something would happen and all these 'poor people' would again perform for the cameras. nothing major happened yet they are still on the virge of riots about food stamps - food stamps!!!.... c'mon give me a break. ....these people do not deserve the assistance they get! this doesn't mean that these people cant do anything or are useless, they sure do act that way, but they have been so hand fed forever that they have no reason to get off their butts and make a better life, so they complain, and take advantage, and ask for more..... and we give it to them. i have often asked myself how these welfare families can have 8 kids and a brand new escalade with 24 inch bling bling rims on it how they can afford it - but yea, its because i am paying for it, as well as paying for my own family of just me, my wife and my son. but i am comfortable, i am not poor, but i sure wouldnt be poor if i didnt have to string along these others with me. surely you can agree/relate. socialism sucks. there are a lot of great people in this area, it isnt all what you saw on TV, they were just the idiots who refused to leave or wouldnt get off their fat govt fed asses to do so.

in answer to the question of the thread:

it doesnt take long at all when those people are never really gateful for the help they get. it is disrespectful, it is disgusting, and it is not going to go away as long as we keep shoveling the benefits to them.

[jtr1962]

Living in a city which had at one time about 15% of the population on the dole, I can vouch for the mentality described in the previous post. I lived in a NYC Housing Project from 1964 through 1978. When the project consisted of mostly working people things were fine. It was clean, the elevators worked, kids could and did play outside all day in safety, even without their parents. This all started to change in the early 1970s when we started getting some welfare families. All it really takes is one or two families in a building to ruin it for the rest. In our building of 24 apartments a welfare famiy moved in under us. Six months later we started getting their roaches. Prior to this neither me nor my siblings even knew what a roach looked like. Besides the roaches there were other "pleasantries". The elevator was either broken, or dirty with urine/feces. The entry door was broken more often than not. There were young men on the benches outside making comments at all the girls/young women. In short, a few families on the dole turned a pleasant, albeit austere, place to live into an intimidating pig sty. It never got as bad as some other city projects where drug dealers took over, but boy was I glad when we got out in 1978.

Although the welfare population here is less than one-third of what it was at its peak, you still have reminders of it. Graffiti on store gates, even private home fences, scratchitti on subway windows, urine sometimes in subway stations. If people don't work to buy things themselves, they have no concept of the value of property. Maybe the shelter residents should have been served notice that they would have to work cleanup detail before being allowed to leave. Perhaps then they wouldn't have trashed the shelters.

[rdamurphy]

Do these subsidy programs provide participating landlords/owners any security and cleaning deposit? Are abusing tenants denied further participation or suspended from the subsidy programs for a while? How do they persuade landlords to participate if they don't have such provisions?

I'm curious about whether any action was taken against these tenants towards evicting them for breach of their lease, judgment for collection of cleanup costs, and/or not refunding any damage/cleaning deposit.


To answer your questions: No, no security or cleaning deposits were allowed. Abusive tenants were pretty much insulated from any criticism by the bleeding hearts that run Section 8, complaints were usually met with "well, get out of the program if you don't care about unfortunate people" remarks. Landlords participate because at least you get the Government portion of the rent every month without fail, and you don't get "midnight move-outs" when someone is three months behind. On the other hand, the minimal contributions the tenants were supposed to make are almost impossible to collect. ("Why do you want my $50 when you're getting a hundreds from the Government?")

We did collect on the door, since the tenant moved into a house the Government made the down payment on for her. My in-laws had to take her to Court to get it, but they did get the money in the end. Funny thing is, I actually went to High School with the chick. She hadn't changed much...

My wife has a friend she went to school with, who's a welfare failure. Has a 6 year old kid with no life skills, manners, or discipline whatsoever, works part time at Wal*Mart as a janitor to keep her "benefits" coming, and has trashed every house she's ever lived in. While she's living there, she's just a slob...

Oh, yeah, she has a Masters in Sociology, paid for by, you guessed it...

Kenny, what was that line in that Charles Bronson movie? About not being mugged yet?

Robert

[Baldwinbob]

Maybe the shelter residents should have been served notice that they would have to work cleanup detail before being allowed to leave. Perhaps then they wouldn't have trashed the shelters.


Bullshit! With the small amount of information in that article I can't believe how you guys can pass judgement. Yeah, seeing they are in a shelter probably means they're poor but so what?

Too bad the web site doesn't include a video of all this 'trashing'.


Bob

[jtr1962]

Bullshit! With the small amount of information in that article I can't believe how you guys can pass judgement. Yeah, seeing they are in a shelter probably means they're poor but so what?

Being poor isn't a crime. We were poor when we lived in the housing project. Both sets of grandparents were poor. I've known lots of other people who were poor. The difference is most of them were raised properly and knew not to trash a place when you were a guest there. I'll even grant that things aren't going to be spotless in a public shelter regardless of who's living there. However, there's a difference between untidy and garbage thrown all over the place. If the people running the shelter failed to provide adequate trash receptables and garbage pickups then the residents can be held mostly blameless. If on the other hand the trash cans were mostly unused because the residents couldn't be bothered to walk a few feet then they are to blame.

You're right-I'd love to see some pictures. I'll gladly give the shelter residents a free pass if sanitary services were inadequate. And I'll even say trashing things these days isn't limited to the bottom rung of society. We regularly have people clean out their cars and empty their garbage on our front lawn. This is in a middle class neighborhood. And anyone who can afford to own the car which they clean out on our lawn obviously isn't poor. Same thing on the subways. A mix of all walks of life, but nobody can be bothered to walk a few feet out of their way to a trash can (yes, the subway receptables are emptied regularly).

[rdamurphy]

I hate people that walk their dogs and let them take a dump on our front lawn. Someday I'm going to grab a chunk and throw it at them! "Here, you forgot something!" When we take our dogs out, I insist we bring along "doggie bags" to clean up after them. I'm always picking up cans, bottles and trash from our front yard, we live close to the corner of the arterial street, about a block or so down.

Median House value in our zip code? $277,672

Median income in our zip code? $73,604

So, yes, you have a significant point!

Robert

[rpicardi1]

I've known lots of other people who were poor. The difference is most of them were raised properly and knew not to trash a place when you were a guest there.

The poor are not the problem. The ones that have been brainwashed that we owe it to them are. And that problem has nothing to do with race or gender.

[rdamurphy]

The "entitlement mentality."

Robert

[mjs2101]

Did anyone else hear about some of the Amtrak consists being completely trashed from those being evacuated? I heard something along this line, including one train where the train crew went into the engine and locked the door behind them, refusing to go back into the train, as the "passengers" were being so rowdy. Curious if anyone might know if this is true or not.

Mykel

[bnsf1959]

Did anyone else hear about some of the Amtrak consists being completely trashed from those being evacuated? I heard something along this line, including one train where the train crew went into the engine and locked the door behind them, refusing to go back into the train, as the "passengers" were being so rowdy. Curious if anyone might know if this is true or not.

Mykel

If that's true, why didn't the Amtrak crew stopped the train and call local police for help?

[rdamurphy]

No, but it is true that Amtrak offered to help evacuate NO during Katrina and the CANT's that ran LA turned them down...

Robert

[rpicardi1]

Notice how much smoother the evacuation was in LA with the CANs now in charge.

[chucksc]

A: 4 days

http://www.waaytv.com/global/story.asp?s=8981423
Maybe these are the rednecks Kenny is busy looking down on, eh?

http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/showthread.php?t=274640&page=3

I am just so glad Kenny and his over-educated, elitest, arrogant friends are available to run our lives for us! Not!

[rdamurphy]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51zIi2Z8%2BLL._SL500_.jpg

Robert

[Erick_Cantu]

Oh my God, Kenny killed a thread!

You bastards!

Sorry, I couldn't resist. No malice intended.:D

[rdamurphy]

ROFL!

http://a.bebo.com/app-image/6935431598/5411656627/PROFILE/i.yaquiz.com/img/q/u/08/04/13/Kenny1.jpg

Robert