MSTS2 And DRM [Archive] - Train-Sim.Com Forums

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NorthernWarrior

09-30-2008, 04:32 AM

Maybe a bit of a touchy subject but one I think that needs to be aired well in advance of release.

As those of us who purchased FSX know, the product came with a limited number of installs (two I think) before you had to ring MS Tech Support for a new serial number. In the meantime, there is a huge stink bubbling with EA over their new DRM policy for PC games - limited number of installs and installation of the SecureROM rootkit which can interfere with other functions of your PC (burning CD's/DVD's etc). Just look at the number of one star reviews titles like Crysis Warhead and C&C RA3 are getting at Amazon, purely over the DRM issue. I believe there is talk of a class action against EA over the issue.

I think MS need to look very closely at this, by its nature a train sim might need to be uninstalled/reinstalled from time to time if an add-on corrupted something. As pointed out in many of the reviews on Amazon, this DRM and limited activation seems more to stop people reselling a game they don't like on Ebay, as the hackers will bypass the protection system quite easily anyway. All it does is hurt those who purchase a genuine copy of the game.

So I would urge, nay plead, with Aces/MS. Please do not go down the DRM road with MSTS2. By all means require the DVD in the drive but do not force the installation of malware like SecureROM or Starforce or limit the number of installs. That will kill your product stone dead as many (myself included) will simply not buy it no matter how good a sim it turns out to be.

muskokaandtahoe

09-30-2008, 12:19 PM

In addition to forgetting about DRM, don't bother with requiring the DVD in the drive either. Already having a terabyte sized RAID array, I sure don't want to be looking around for where I stored the DVD.

It seems pretty obvious to me that, on average, train simmers are an older bunch of consumers than most gamers, more likely to be mature enough to be honest about paying purchase price of something for their hobby. Give us some respect here, okay?

rdamurphy

09-30-2008, 07:43 PM

DRM is the PRIMARY reason I won't buy Vista. Ever.

Robert

ATSFFAN

10-02-2008, 12:33 AM

For what it's worth, I have had FSX for over a year now and re-loaded it at least four or five times on my computer before my computer died. I have reloaded it twice on my current system and have not had any problems with DRM so far. I am by no means an expert in this area, but maybe it is not so much how many times you install the simulator, but how many computers you try to install it on. As far as having to use the disc in the drive every time you fire up the simulator, in FSX you do not. Hopefully, Trainsimulator 2 will not be anything worse.

=ATSFFAN=

landnrailroader

10-14-2008, 10:51 PM

I have both an original MSTS and the later version distributed by Atari and widely available at about $10 or so. The first version did not require the disk (#2) to be loaded but the 2nd one did, although someone came out with a hacked version that did not require the disk and I use that item. I don't like the idea of having to load the media to use the game simply because media has a finite life and readers sometimes burp, destroying the media when they do, so I would hesitate to buy any sim. that required the media to be in the drive. Haven't got a terrabyte of RAID yet, but I have several terrabytes of DVDs sitting around my office in boxes.

J. H. Sullivan
aka landnrailroader

TrirailF40PHL

10-15-2008, 02:22 AM

Well, if it makes any difference to the M$ team at this point:

Disk in drive and/or absolutely ridiculous DRM bundled = one sale permenantly lost right here.

I don't care what the game is, who it is made by, or how much I'd enjoy it - hijackware has no place on my system, period.

-Kurt

jtr1962

10-15-2008, 03:26 AM

I agree wholeheartedly about both the disk in drive and DRM. The requirement to have the disk in the drive is one reason I haven't bothered with Railsim much. I like to keep DVD-RWs in my optical drives so I can back up important files immediately. Having to swap those out with a game disk is beyond annoying. Besides, I feel these measures are unnecessary. I highly doubt any of the long-time trainsimmers are going to go through the trouble of pirating the sim just to save a few bucks. Depriving MS of revenue would only hurt our chances in the long run of having them support the sim and release future updates. The only people who might pirate it are casual users who'll likely lose interest after a week or two anyway. And if they don't, chances are they'll decide it's worth having a legitimate copy.

Hack

10-15-2008, 12:12 PM

DRM is the PRIMARY reason I won't buy Vista. Ever.

Please correct me if wrong, but IIRC, the XP OS also contains an autheticator.

The first version did not require the disk (#2) to be loaded but the 2nd one did, although someone came out with a hacked version that did not require the disk and I use that item.

Jerry - The MSTS v1.2 patch cures this. :)

I agree wholeheartedly about both the disk in drive and DRM. The requirement to have the disk in the drive is one reason I haven't bothered with Railsim much.

Using the MkII update and the latest developer tools will give you a RailSimEditor.exe, which does not require the disc to be inserted. :)

Rick-MONON

10-15-2008, 01:18 PM

If it requires Vista, disc in drive, Internet connectiviy, DRM or will not play MSTS original routes, I will not by it.

djt1

10-15-2008, 11:51 PM

If it requires Vista, disc in drive, Internet connectiviy, DRM or will not play MSTS original routes, I will not by it.

LOL, good luck to you with your future PC gaming endeavors.

rdamurphy

10-16-2008, 12:32 AM

Oddly enough, DRM and "piracy prevention" methods in XP, Office, Games, and other applications only waste time for the people that purchase them legally. The pirates just happily crack them and go merrily on their way. The last WGA update for Windows XP was cracked within 24 hours...

Robert

djt1

10-16-2008, 12:50 AM

Oddly enough, DRM and "piracy prevention" methods in XP, Office, Games, and other applications only waste time for the people that purchase them legally.
DRM is the PRIMARY reason I won't buy Vista. Ever. Robert

Again, good luck on your future PC gaming/sim endeavors.

AMRoad

10-16-2008, 01:27 AM

I have two DVD drives in my computer and I don't have a problem with the idea you must have the disk in the drive to play.

Boweavel

10-16-2008, 11:50 AM

So I would urge, nay plead, with Aces/MS. Please do not go down the DRM road with MSTS2. By all means require the DVD in the drive but do not force the installation of malware like SecureROM or Starforce or limit the number of installs.

I'd just like to 2nd that, And add that I just cant wait to get this new sim.. it's looking sweet! So DRM or not, i'll still run it :) The multi install issue, i hope they find a way around that.

rdamurphy

10-16-2008, 08:24 PM

All right. I bit the bullet. You guys know I don't like to "believe" things I don't know as a fact... sooooo... I ordered a copy of Windows Vista, I'm going to install it on my system as a dual boot, and give it a try. I'm going to make up my mind on my own.

Robert

djt1

10-16-2008, 08:29 PM

rdamurphy

10-16-2008, 08:42 PM

32 bit, but it says you have to pay for an upgrade to 64. It was cheap. eBay.

Robert

djt1

10-16-2008, 09:14 PM

32 bit, but it says you have to pay for an upgrade to 64. It was cheap. eBay.

Robert

What are the specs on your system, do you have 4GB or more of RAM?

rdamurphy

10-16-2008, 09:19 PM

Nope. 2GB. 3.0E P4, Radeon X1300XGE

Robert

djt1

10-16-2008, 09:52 PM

Nope. 2GB. 3.0E P4, Radeon X1300XGE

Robert

To tell you the truth I don’t think you’re going see any benefit going to Vista with those specs.

If you had at least 4GB of RAM and a 64 Bit processor I’d say you’d be better off with Vista 64.

rdamurphy

10-16-2008, 11:01 PM

Well, that kind of proves my point then, doesn't it? Why should an OS require double the ram and twice the processer to deliver the SAME or LESS performance? I'll have to see how it works, since I'll be dual booting, I can make comparisons using the exact same hardware...

Robert

djt1

10-17-2008, 01:33 AM

Well, that kind of proves my point then, doesn't it? Why should an OS require double the ram and twice the processer to deliver the SAME or LESS performance?

Then explain to me how with the two systems I own sims/games perform better with Vista 64/SP1 than they do with XP/Pro SP3?

Who said with hardware from the last year or two that Vista performs the “SAME or LESS” than XP?

Do yourself a favor and start getting your information from real computer hardware sites instead of Train-sim.com and make some educated decisions on your OS purchase.

rdamurphy

10-17-2008, 10:35 AM

djt1

10-17-2008, 03:20 PM

I was just reacting to what you said here...

Robert

Robert,

Here are just two links to the many forums out there that have some real good info on Vista and the upcoming Windows 7, which will share a lot in common with Vista.

Getting back to your response, if you’re just interested in experimenting with a new OS and learning about Vista and to get an idea on what to expect from Windows 7, then I would definitely give it a try.

http://www.vistax64.com/

http://thevistaforums.com/

rjdiii

10-17-2008, 06:11 PM

In the for what it's worth file, I have a dual boot system with 32 bit XP SP3 and 32bit Vista and I prefer Vista. The default security is annoying (ok, really annoying) until you learn how to manage it to your liking but other than than I think it runs things quicker and graphics are smoother. It deals with misbehaving apps much quicker and is less forgiving than XP but I appreciate that.

Richard

GeoffM

10-22-2008, 09:00 AM

kevinculla9

10-22-2008, 11:26 PM

To tell you the truth I don’t think you’re going see any benefit going to Vista with those specs.

If you had at least 4GB of RAM and a 64 Bit processor I’d say you’d be better off with Vista 64.

as a matter of fact with those specs he'd more than likely see a decrease in performance!! VISTA is a resource hog!! Im running a q6600 @4.0GHZ with 8 gigs of ram..VISTA 64..performance is good however when i had only 4 gigs it was a little slowish. Anyway this whole operating system discussion is getting a little far away from the original topic of this post..........

wozzar

10-23-2008, 07:19 AM

Sorry to hijack the thread a little, but as a software developer myself I'm not keen on piracy. Not everybody is honest, though I'm sure the vast majority on this forum are.

Nevertheless, how do I protect my software from piracy? I'm not asking this in an offensive or accusatory manner, I actually just want ideas! Something that goes at least a little way into protecting my software but without the obvious hatred of DRM. I must admit I hadn't realised the feelings were so strong. "DVD in the drive" isn't an option for me as any software is distributed online, not in a box.

Thanks

Geoff M.

You could corrupt the graphics so they turn white or something like that, it is sure to put pirates of the game. I don't know how the corrupt graphics work and how it detects a pirate version. But i have heard of some developers who use this method and is quite effective.

Capt_Scarlet

10-23-2008, 10:16 AM

Nevertheless, how do I protect my software from piracy? I'm not asking this in an offensive or accusatory manner, I actually just want ideas! Something that goes at least a little way into protecting my software but without the obvious hatred of DRM. I must admit I hadn't realised the feelings were so strong. "DVD in the drive" isn't an option for me as any software is distributed online, not in a box.

Thanks

Geoff M.

The best method I have come across for digital downloads is that from Stardock ( Impluse ) which is a similar service to Steam. With Stardock's system you are able to re download at any time without time limits, dont need their service running or installed ( to get any future updates you must use their service though ) when you use a program or game and can transfer games programs to new systems if needed. The only requirement is that you remember the email account / password your login / account is linked too as far as I remember.

John

wozzar

10-24-2008, 04:27 AM

The best method I have come across for digital downloads is that from Stardock ( Impluse ) which is a similar service to Steam. With Stardock's system you are able to re download at any time without time limits, dont need their service running or installed ( to get any future updates you must use their service though ) when you use a program or game and can transfer games programs to new systems if needed. The only requirement is that you remember the email account / password your login / account is linked too as far as I remember.

John

You could also use Gamers gate and they offer unlimited down loads unless specified by the developer.