"Quillable" Whistles/Horns

[Traindude]

I am thinking about a new sound feature for MSTSX. On steam locomotives, whistles were controlled by cords or levers. And before solenoid-controlled valves were introduced, diesel horns also had their horns controlled by cords or levers.

An interesting phenomenon happens when the whistle/horn cord/lever is pulled---

If the engineer pulls the cord or lever only SLIGHTLY, the whistle or horn will sound different than if the lever or cord was pulled ALL THE WAY. This is called "playing the whitle/horn."

IMO, this can be controlled with the center wheel of the mouse--clicking and "scrolling" down will increase "tension" and clicking and "scrolling" up will decrease "tension." MTH Electric Trains has done something similar with their Digital Command System.

How does this idea sound?

[BNSFfan]

Thats a great idea.. But would require some work to record at different tones.

[marcus92]

Thats a great idea.. But would require some work to record at different tones.

i allso think this is a great idea, but it doesnt realy mean its ALOT of work, and you dont alot of need recorded sound, you could just have 1 good recording that lasts for a surten amount of time and then when you scrolled you might slow the file down when played as well as you could lower the sound, dont know how well this would work and it would probably need some good knowledge about the sound files


// sorry about the bad english.

[julioeddie]

I just hope horns can be played in both short and long sounds..like the shave n haircut. I don't ask more.

[mestevet]

I think it's a great idea too, but my question would be what algorithm would be used to interpolate between the quill sound and the full on horn/whistle.

I think that by frequency limiting a full on horn sound, you could probably break out a convincing quill if one was not available. I've actually been playing with horn sounds while I've been watching this thread unfold. I had a very clean recording of a Wabco AA-2 and I pulled out some of the high and low-range frequencies and muted the sound a bit and I think what's left would be a fairly convincing quill of that horn (I DO happen to have a quilled version too, a short too-toot the driver gave me when he saw me there with the video camera!)

On the topic of horns, I beg and plead to have the horn sound audible in any interior views, based on distance from the engine. It just kills me not to be able to hear it from inside in MSTS1.

Steve

[TrainMan_112]

And the point of this is....?

[DJF]

I wouldn't be crazy about being able to quill a horn, so much as having a better horn than MSTS1. Something like TRS, where even a quick jab on the horn causes it to activate, and it activates as soon as you press space. In MSTS1, the response times were... less than spectacular, making it difficult to preform LLSL's in crowded urban areas, and do a shave and a haircut. The horns came on late, and then held longer than needed.

Quilling would be nice, but I'd be very happy with a well functioning all-or-nothing horn. :)

On the topic of horns, I beg and plead to have the horn sound audible in any interior views, based on distance from the engine. It just kills me not to be able to hear it from inside in MSTS1.

You can hear it, if the car is directly coupled to the locomotive. Go one car back, and it's gone.

[Erick_Cantu]

I don't have the issue. I set my external locomotive sounds so they are audible in passenger views - a step often skipped - and I haven't had an issue since. The big issue is that very rarely are MSTS sounds mixed and mastered properly. The horn should be the baseline maximum volume. Everything else should be mixed in relative to the horn. Most engine and other sounds are much, much, much too loud, so the horn is easily drowned out. Pull the volume of the other sounds down, turn the volume of your speakers up, and make the horn volume the maximum. It sounds much better.

Now... I wish I could set up horn sounds so that a different clip plays in passenger views. From the passenger cars, a K5LA will often sound like a K3LA.

[mestevet]

And the point of this is....?

Thats a great idea.. But would require some work to record at different tones.

Hence my comments about how one might obtain different sounds without having a recording.

And TrainMan_112 what exactly did your snide comment add to the thread, Troll?

Steve

[TrainMan_112]

I just think there are far more important issues to deal with in the development of the sim than "pulling the horn cord just a little bit so it isn't quite as loud."

[mestevet]

You can hear it, if the car is directly coupled to the locomotive. Go one car back, and it's gone.

I haven't had that same experience. I couldn't get it to work that way in my Silverliner EMU's where the engine IS the first car, but no matter, I've never been able to hear the horn in any car. Erick's method of enabling the external sounds in the passenger view is a workaround, but I never cared for hearing the external sounds inside. In my experience, at least with modern cars, the sound deadening is pretty effective at making the interior of a car sound significantly different than the exterior.

So perhaps my plea wasn't framed correctly: please allow a horn activated sound trigger in the passenger view, unlike MSTS1, or better yet, please allow all the sound triggers to be available in any view (like the compressor in the external view).

Oh, I could go on in my complaints about the sounds in MSTS1. Another big complaint of mine was the default setup of the track sounds (which is something a lot of people modified because it is just so annoying) both too loud and triggered on distance travelled, so just about any train moving at a decent speed will cause the clips to pile up faster than the clips could play, so the track sounds keep playing long after the train has stopped.

Steve

[mestevet]

I just think there are far more important issues to deal with in the development of the sim than "pulling the horn cord just a little bit so it isn't quite as loud."

Such as?

Did you read the original post in the thread? This is far different than as YOU put it, "pulling the horn cord just a little bit so it isn't quite as loud." Actually the pitch changes, and going further, the harmonics change because the amount of air or steam being admitted through the horn/whistle is lessened by the partial pull of the cord. As some of the other posters put it, it's difficult to control the horn and get a realistic blow in the current MSTS, this is one of the things that could be done to make it more realistic.

[TrainMan_112]

Are you kidding me?

- Realistic train physics.

- An AI system that we can rely on.

- Support for steam locomotives.

- Editors that aren't buggy and are somewhat user friendly.


I'd say those are pretty important.

[mestevet]

Are you kidding me?

- Realistic train physics.

- An AI system that we can rely on.

- Support for steam locomotives.

- Editors that aren't buggy and are somewhat user friendly.


I'd say those are pretty important.

And I'd dare say each one of those has been discussed in this forum, the issue of quilling a horn has not, to my knowledge. If you want to get in a spitting match about this, quilling a horn falls under realistic train physics. Physics is the science that governs the operation of mechanical and pneumatic devices (among other things), which happen to include horns. The modelling of horns in MSTS1 is poor at best. This would improve the physical representation of the horn in the sim.

Start your own thread on your topics if you don't like the topic in this one.

[TrainMan_112]

And I'd dare say each one of those has been discussed in this forum, the issue of quilling a horn has not, to my knowledge. If you want to get in a spitting match about this, quilling a horn falls under realistic train physics. Physics is the science that governs the operation of mechanical and pneumatic devices (among other things), which happen to include horns. The modelling of horns in MSTS1 is poor at best. This would improve the physical representation of the horn in the sim.

Start your own thread on your topics if you don't like the topic in this one.

Classifying "quilling a horn" as train physics is quite a stretch.

But if you think that pulling the horn cord just a little bit to make it sound different is important, that's great.

I doubt the devs will include this though.

[REISCOOL]

Are you kidding me?

- Realistic train physics.

- An AI system that we can rely on.

- Support for steam locomotives.

- Editors that aren't buggy and are somewhat user friendly.


I'd say those are pretty important.

Those are important, I'll give you that, but a quilling feature also enters in into the realism section. real trains can do it, so why should MSTS not?

[Driverman2008]

I love the Quillable whistle/horn feature on the new MTH model trains! I would love to have it in MSTS 2!:)

[BNSFfan]

If you were to simply have the algorithm set to make it faster or slower. It wouldn't even sound like the real world thing. Since each bell on a horn has a different specific note it plays, and comes on at different pressures, you wouldn't beable to take a "full on blowing" recording and make it sound like the real quilling from a real horn. MTH takes a recording from each bell coming on and spilces them together. Then a logarithmic equation within the DCS system will vary the pitch along with the position of the controllers horn key.

[Driverman2008]

Well, whatever it is, you can't beat MTH when it comes to the most realistic and clear model train sounds (in all of their gauges). In fact, I think their model trains are a great source for PC and video game modelers in the audio department.

[mestevet]

Classifying "quilling a horn" as train physics is quite a stretch.

Let's take this discussion elsewhere as it has nothing to do with MSTS-X. I am quite qualified to discuss physics on a detailed level if you wish:

http://forums.flightsim.com/vbts/showthread.php?p=1439376#post1439376

Steve

[Erick_Cantu]

Erick's method of enabling the external sounds in the passenger view is a workaround, but I never cared for hearing the external sounds inside. In my experience, at least with modern cars, the sound deadening is pretty effective at making the interior of a car sound significantly different than the exterior.
Remember, my solution also assumes that all sounds are scaled in relation to the horn. The engine sounds would thus be about one third the volume of most MSTS engine sounds. Also remember that my passenger experiences all come from riding Amtrak - from 3/4 down the train in superliners the locomotives are very audible.

[weevil]

Just like to add my vote for this feature. In making this statement I am assuming that all the "obvious" features of the sim will be properly implemented and working.

Quillable horns and whistles are in the list of secondary features for me along with things like smoke color that changes based on how a steam locomotive is being fired and driven, properly implemented steam loco wheelslip sounds and so on. Perhaps not fundamental at an operational level, but these kind of things add enormously to the overall atmosphere.

Just as a side note (no pun intended), I have a few videos of U.S. steam in action and it is notable how much "playing" of the whistle is a part of the whole steam experience.

I'd love to be able to hook my joystick up and use it as a whistle chord, with the stick mimicking the opening of the whistle valve. If this can't be included in the sim at release I wouldn't be in the least surprised, but it would be nice if MS could at least put in some kind of provision for it so that it could be added later, either by themselves or a third party.

Stuart

[BNSFfan]

I know its an old topic. But echo's would be nice. If I can do it in MSTS1, they should beable to code it into MSTS-2..