Flight gear 18.3.2 initial set up

[flytv1]

Hi.

OK, Here are some more pics for position.

 

 

>>As Thorsten and i already said: There is no key action assigned to the cowl flaps. And if you would exactly read the map.pdf, then you would understand that only the mentioned aircraft uses the d-key for the cowl.

OK, that was not clear to me, I would have expected to Cowl flaps "D" key to be available to ALL acft since it is an important system.

 

>>And for joystick action you don`t need to assign any key. Instead assign the property to the joystick!

If you look at the pick with the Jstick assignments I see no Cowl flaps assignment. Where do I find it?

I added a higher res pic for Jstick.

[HHS]

About the pilot eye position: compare following real images with the the FGFS C182S:

 

And now FlightGear:

Only when eye leve is above the yellow line, you can see the cowling. But then is your head really hitting the ceiling.

[HHS]

@flytv1: select custom and assign the mentioned property.

 

Only few aircraft simulates cowl flaps in FlightGear, I`m only aware of three to four: SenecaII, DC3(JSBSim) I think, C182S and IAR80.

[flytv1]

Hi HHS.

OK, I will try to find out how to use Custom. I am not sure where / what the Property is.

It is true that there are not many acft that have Cowl flaps but some of the most commonly used for training like the 182, 182RG, Baron... have them.

 

About the Cowl view, I do not want you to be left with the impression that you can Not see the cowl, I suggest that you take some time and sit in one. I've spent many hundreds of hours in them.

 

One acft that is really needed is a C182RG not a single free good one exists presently.

[HHS]

About the Cowl view, I do not want you to be left with the impression that you can Not see the cowl, I suggest that you take some time and sit in one. I've spent many hundreds of hours in them.

 

 

I have No access to any aircraft. And even then, I`m not that tall and would have to raise up the seat and putting most forward to reach the pedals, hopefully not interfering with the yoke. So I would have a different view than you!

 

And that`s exactly what I found out in talks between pilots.

And as the images I posted, shows - unless you stretch yourself- on the newer Cessna 182 it isn`t easy to see the cowling. That`s pure physics.

 

So actually your inputs are not helpful, since I still don`t know how to set the view- I need numbers!

 

I am not sure where / what the Property is.

/controls/engines/engine/cowl-flaps-norm

[HHS]

And that you can see the cowling and see the wingtips on a C150L is no surprise:

[ThorstenRenk]

It feels a bit silly, but I've gone through the motions to adjust the seat such that I can see the cowl - of course this is possible within a second or so if I want it (in view mode, right-click mouse, drag upward):

 

The 182S

 

http://www.science-and-fiction.org/FG/pics/silly_exercise_1.jpg

 

And the 172:

 

http://www.science-and-fiction.org/FG/pics/silly_exercise_2.jpg

 

In the 172, I also see wingtips when I look towards the side form the same point, in the 182S I do not, I'd have to move lower again. Again, I've never been in a real 182S (or 172 for that matter) so I can't tell whether one should or not, but I can state confidently that it's a non-issue to adjust the view to what you expect to see.

[flytv1]

Hi Thorsten.

I am not sure we are talking / using the same version? If you look at the panel above the Radio stack yours has a different Audio panel and the Compass.

When I move / scroll with the Right Mouse the whole forward view tilts, as if the Cpit and outside view are glued together, it doesn't not just move my head up with respect to the panel.

A couple of more things that I want to point out is the Performance at 2000 MSL 24/24. standard day (29.92, 15C, SL), the one I have shows a cursing speed IAS of about 120 kt, in the real 182 I get around 130

Also the Altimeter at KSNA 29.92 shows around - 370 ft and it should be around 60, it would appear that it is defaulting to something other than Standard but it is being set to standard?

Thanks for looking at this and I can tell you that when I say that these views are Not trivial, I know what I am talking about and if you start flying for real and your instructor does not point some of these things out to you, you have the wrong instructor and likely you will never really learn / know how to fly VFR / ground reference flight.

I got my version from github and it's file c-182-master.zip file size 72.8 MB (76,395, 873 bytes) there is another one somewhat smaller in size, from FG acft site? I will try that next.

I have a PC, Win 7 Pro 64, Intel, 4.GHz,1080 GTX, 4K resolution.

When I try to go from 2D to 3D using the "c" key I see no difference in the screen or configuration, what system are you using / testing?

Thanks again for trying to look at some of these issues, my hope is that this discussion clarifies some of these points for others also.

Here is some info from README and AUTHORS

I just tested the other version and it behaves the same, see the README Not Used below. I am getting more confused by the minute.

 

I have this

README File:

Cessna 182S

===========

 

A high detailed, realistic version of the Cessna 182S aircraft for FlightGear. Can be flown according real pilot manual.

 

 

 

For the repository containing the .xcf and .svg files for the textures and liveries, visit: https://github.com/HHS81/c182-Textures/

 

---

 

This aircraft was modified and updated in a joint effort by the following people:

 

* HHS81 (HHS): 3D model, fdm, programming, textures, bug tracking, testing

 

* Gilberto Agostinho (gsagostinho): textures, xml, bug tracking, testing

 

* onox: advice, nasal-scripts, testing

 

* Wayne Bragg (wlbragg): rain effect, advice

 

* Ron Jensen (jentron)

 

* Daniel Dubreuil (Dany93)

 

* Stuart Buchanan

 

* David Megginson

 

 

AUTHORS

This aircraft was modified and updated in a joint effort by the following people:

 

* Heiko Schulz (hhs81): 3D model, fdm, textures, bug tracking, testing

Email: heiko.h.schulz@gmx.net

 

* Gilberto Agostinho (gsagostinho): textures, xml, bug tracking, testing

Email: gilbertohasnofb@gmail.com

 

* Benedikt Hallinger (benih): Startup States, Davtron 803, Audio Panel, Fuel system, Oil management, external heating, Custom registration, bug tracking and fixes, testing and more

 

* onox: advice, nasal-scripts, testing

 

* Wayne Bragg (wlbragg): rain effect, advice

 

* Ron Jensen (jentron)

 

* Daniel Dubreuil (Dany93)

 

* Stuart Buchanan

 

* David Megginson

 

Smaller- Not used

README file

Cessna 182S

===========

 

A high detailed, realistic version of the Cessna 182S aircraft for FlightGear. Can be flown according real pilot manual.

 

Further information can be read in [Documentation.md](Documentation.md).

 

Development thread: http://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=28475

FG Wiki page: http://wiki.flightgear.org/Cessna_182S

 






 

 

For the repository containing the .xcf and .svg files for the textures and liveries, visit: https://github.com/HHS81/c182-Textures/

 

---

 

This aircraft was modified and updated in a joint effort by the following people:

 

* HHS81 (HHS): 3D model, fdm, programming, textures, bug tracking, testing

 

* Gilberto Agostinho (gsagostinho): textures, xml, bug tracking, testing

 

* onox: advice, nasal-scripts, testing

 

* Wayne Bragg (wlbragg): rain effect, advice

 

* Ron Jensen (jentron)

 

* Daniel Dubreuil (Dany93)

 

* Stuart Buchanan

 

* David Megginson

 

Smaller- Not used

README file

Cessna 182S

===========

 

A high detailed, realistic version of the Cessna 182S aircraft for FlightGear. Can be flown according real pilot manual.

 

Further information can be read in [Documentation.md](Documentation.md).

 

Development thread: http://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=28475

FG Wiki page: http://wiki.flightgear.org/Cessna_182S

 






 

 

For the repository containing the .xcf and .svg files for the textures and liveries, visit: https://github.com/HHS81/c182-Textures/

 

---

 

This aircraft was modified and updated in a joint effort by the following people:

 

* HHS81 (HHS): 3D model, fdm, programming, textures, bug tracking, testing

 

* Gilberto Agostinho (gsagostinho): textures, xml, bug tracking, testing

 

* onox: advice, nasal-scripts, testing

 

* Wayne Bragg (wlbragg): rain effect, advice

 

* Ron Jensen (jentron)

 

* Daniel Dubreuil (Dany93)

 

* Stuart Buchanan

 

* David Megginson

[HHS]

When I move / scroll with the Right Mouse the whole forward view tilts, as if the Cpit and outside view are glued together, it doesn't not just move my head up with respect to the panel.

 

 

You are probably doing something wrong

 

A couple of more things that I want to point out is the Performance at 2000 MSL 24/24. standard day (29.92, 15C, SL), the one I have shows a cursing speed IAS of about 120 kt, in the real 182 I get around 130

 

 

We are simulating the Cessna 182 S version from 1996. The flightmanual clearly states for this 131 KTAS at MTOW. Did you took in account the recommended lean mixture? Did you flew this with MTOW?

I get exactly the numbers given in the Cessna 182 S POH: The speeds in the left top part of the images is non-corrected. The one on the instrument is corrected.

 

Also the Altimeter at KSNA 29.92 shows around - 370 ft and it should be around 60, it would appear that it is defaulting to something other than Standard but it is being set to standard?

I get the correct value:

 

 

Btw.: Did you missed the point that I am the author of the Cessna 182 S?

[flytv1]

Hi HHS.

We must be talking about 2 different sims.

I found the issue with the Altimeter, apparently the default state is high pressure and there is no Standard day selection, you have to set things manually to get 29.92 and 60ft.

The Views and Performance still eludes me, see pic. what you have shown is acceptable, I fly 1978 regularly and I get around 130 KIAS at 24/22 on a Standard day

Can I get access to the exact files that you guys have? I also set the Winds to 0 (zero) just to make sure it would not affect the readings.

What OS System are you guys testing on?

Yes, I did see your name associated with the 182, it's exactly the reason I am trying to help you with the situation that I encounter. I can see that you guys are trying and I appreciate it, but somehow it does not get the expected / real life as I know it from many years of experience, results.

A couple of things that I suggest, Start out with a Basic joystick, have a Standard day setting to default to, and standardize on the Key commands, otherwise I can guarantee you you will not have many users that have the patience, or knowledge , to get this sim started and stop using it after a few minutes.

I cannot recall how far back I have to go, to remember a more time consuming process to set up a flight simulator.

[HHS]

With cowl flaps closed:

 

With cowl flaps open I get the values you show. But I`m pretty sure you didn`t flew full power with full fuel flow in real life all the time, I don`t think the engine likes that....There is a reason Cessna put those markings and no good pilot will fly beyond the limits if not needed.

 

There is not something like default state of weather. You can change it as you like it, change the weather to your own METAR settings etc, etc, etc....

 

And the Cessna 182S 1996 differs a lot from the Cessna 182 from 1978 when I compare the cruise perfomance C182S C182Q(1978)

 

 

Anyway, none of your postings or information is or was helpful for me. None of your provided information can be translated into the flight dynamics model of the Cessna 182S - that´s the one we simulate, not any other version.

Instead I feel a quite arrogant and ignorant tone from your side here. You repeated explaining at least two time basic flying technics to a certified glider pilot (Thorsten Renk). You ignored the inputs from Thorsten and me.

 

FlightGear exists since more than 20years, we have grown a lot since then. There are a lot private and professional pilot using and developing FlightGear, there are flight schools using FlightGear and there are universities using FlightGear for their research and educational purposes and of course there are all those armchair aces. So there are more than enough users.

 

They not only have the patience to get to used to, they are even happy that FlightGear is that highly customizable as it is, and that`s the strength of this simulator. We support any input device, from mouse to joystick, yoke, pedals or anything else - for good reason. This needs some learning curve from the user, and we are aware of that many people prefer more easy to-use arcarde style flight sims. Since we don`t aim for those people, it is o.k. for us.

 

This project FlightGear and all the Addons are made in our spare time, without any payment - it is completely free to everyone: We don`t owe you anything.

So if it is not your simulator- remove it and pay for another one.

 

Or, in the spirit of Flightgear: If you don`t like it - create your own better Cessna 182.

 

Since my time is limited I will stop this discussion now. I`m wasting my time here. I am out.

[flytv1]

Hi HHS.

It is my hope that you've learned something, if did not it's not because I did not try, my intention was to help and educate.

 

About the Cowl flaps, since you brought them up, I was not going to mention it, for other people's interest that want to know and learn, at the most you get from Cowl flaps open is a drop of about 4-5kts in flight.

Yes, most of the time the fuel tanks are full, but mostly only 2 people aboard.

Yest I also know that the 96 vs 78 are different, but at full power they are better performing.

There are many other things about the Flight dynamics that I do not want to bring up, because I do not consider them sufficiently important that are not correct, but I think the most glaring is to cruise performance and the cockpit views.

I do hope that you consider my advice for what was intended, and yes I know that FG was around for 20 years, I've been using simulators long before that, many times I used / tried it before and I cannot recall when I had so much trouble trying to get it to work.

 

Your effort is appreciated, and your advice of doing my own is something I was considering, I've done that in other sims that I used, but I am not sure that the way the sim is set up now is something that would result in a useful project. Too many things are not organized and difficult to set up.

 

I will continue to try to help but it is impossible if someone is not Ready to learn which is one of the Laws of learning.

[ThorstenRenk]

When I move / scroll with the Right Mouse the whole forward view tilts, as if the Cpit and outside view are glued together, it doesn't not just move my head up with respect to the panel.

 

Well, that is weird (and finally explains why you're unhappy with the situation).

 

What happens if you do it manually?

 

* Open Debug -> Property browser

* Go into /sim/current-view/

 

At the bottom will be x-offset-m, y-offset-m, z-offset-m which are the view coordinates relative to the 3d mesh origin - you can click on any of them and alter their value. Usually y is up in 3d space, so what happens if you just keep increasing y-offset-m a bit?

 

***

 

My version of the 182S might be slightly different since I got it at some point from HHS for testing purposes, I believe it is a bit older than what you have, but the 3d mesh should be pretty much the same, so for the question we're discussing it should not matter.

 

***

 

The distinction between 2d and 3d panels is at least a decade old and basically unsupported - initially FG had 2d panels, then the full 3d cockpits were phased in and at that time it was assumed to be a good idea to have it optional, now hardly any craft has 2d panels any more, so usually whatever you select you see the full 3d cockpit.

[flytv1]

Hi Thorsten.

Thank you for the feedback.

I will try what you suggested and see the results.

I noticed that the the default 172 may only have 2D panel? If I switch to 3D it give me just the forward runway view without an instrument panel.

What OS / computer are you using? I have a Win 7 Pro 64 bit, would that affect things?

 

The Cruise performance in the 182 is related, at least in part, to the excessive drag introduced by the Cowl flaps, in a real life 182 there is hardly any effect on airspeed less that45kts, in the FG 182 looks like it's about 20kt.

Thanks again for your effort in trying to help, as time goes on I will try to compile some information about how to set things up, based on my experience, that will hopefully help others.

 

At some point I may give creating a model a try, it's been a long time since I built one for FS9, a good free C182RG seems to be missing from all the simulators available presently and that is one acft that is sufficiently complex for most GA pilots to learn to fly.

 

In trying to implement Vocals speech commands withe the 182, and using the Map.pfd for keyboard commands I was only able to get about 12 out of 70 I tried, and in some cases I had to change the key assignment in the FG. I need to learn how to use the Custom to assign Keyboard commands.

Here are some of the phrases that I was able to get to work, looks like this site scrambles the formatting but you may be able to get an idea.

 

Command Key XP Answer Key FG

Flaps up D1 Flaps up 2 -New FG OK

Flaps down D2 Flaps down 2 Ctrl -New FG OK

Brakes toggle B Brakes toggle Off / ON b Shft OK

Toggle speed brakes NA Speed brakes toggled B Ctrl OK

Cycle views NA Cycle views V OK

Cockpit View NA Cockpit V Ctrl OK

Exit Simulator Shft F4 Exit (CHAHGE IN XP KEYS) ESC FG OK

Testing KeyCode Speech is On sir (TEST) KeyCode OK

Stop listening Control Key Toggle listening (Voice Stop Listen) Control Use KB for On /Off

 

You can see a complete list of the ones I tried below, FG is in the most right column:

Commands / Phrases for Vocals Speech control app used in XP11.

To use: Place "win.xpl"(extplane.zip), and "Vocals.exe" (https://www.alth.fr/Vocals/index.php) and Run Vocals.exe, "profiles_xml.vc" included here, in a newly created directory ...X-Plane 11\Resources\plugins\ExtPlane\Vocals, and Start XP11 in windows mode. Make changes to the keys NEW and CHANGE keys listed below, Start Vocals with Run as Administrator, and select XP11 profile, and Application X-System. You can now go back to XP11 and use Full screen.

Some versions of XPlane have it already you can try it and if it works you do not need to add it.

For Flight Gear (FG) you do not need anything, just start FG in window mode, and Start Vocals.

NP-Numeric KP, FG-Flight Gear, XP-XPlane; Stop listening- must be enabled with KB Ctrl key

Note: Dx is Decimal number 1.. OemOpenBrackets IS [ etc. NG =Tested from KBoard Jstic only in c182 NG

 

Command Key XP Answer Key FG

Flaps up D1 Flaps up 2 -New FG OK

Flaps down D2 Flaps down 2 Ctrl -New FG OK

Brakes toggle B Brakes toggle Off / ON b Shft OK

Landing gear down D Gear down g Sft

Positive rate gear up U Gear up g

Map toggle M Map toggle NOT IN FG NA

Mixture Off F7 Mixture Off SKIP n (finer) 4x NG

Mixture Full F8 Mixture Full m (richer) 4x NG

Carb heat off F9 Carb heat off $ Sft 4? Toggle NG

Carb heat on F10 Carb heat on SKIP NA???

Trim nose down OemOpenBrackets Nose down PG7 Dec Elev? NG

Trim nose down a lot OemOpenBrackets Nose down a lot (4x) NP 7 4x NG from KB??

Trim nose up Sft OemOpenBrackets nose up (NEW KEY XP11) NP 1 Inc elev? NG

Trim nose up a lot Sft OemOpenBrackets nose up a lot (4x) (NEW KEY XP11) NP 1 4x NG

Reverse trust toggle Sft OemBackslash Reverse trust m Sft Enga revr

Decrease spoilers NA Decrease spoilers j

Increase spoilers NA Increase spoilers k

Toggle spoilers NA Spoilers toggled k Ctrl

Toggle speed brakes NA Speed brakes toggled B Ctrl OK

Auto start engine Sft x Engine Started s

Cowl flaps toggle NA Cowl flaps toggle D NG from KB??

Cowl flaps open Ctrl c x20 Cowl flaps partially open (Add in XP) NA

Cowl flaps closed Ctrl o x20 Cowl flaps partially open (Add in XP) NA

G 1000 approach toggle SHFT O Approach toggled (NEW KEY XP11) NA

Autopilot toggle SHFT G Autopilot toggle (NEW KEY XP11) W Ctrl? Wing Lelr NG

Auto pilot approach toggle CTRL A A. Pee Approach toggled G Ctrl

Autopilot heading hold toggle SHFT A Heading hold toggle H Ctrl NG

Auto pilot altitude hold SFT i Altitude hold a Ctrl ALT Lock NG

Flight director toggle SFT J Flight director toggle NA

 

3 D cockpit SFT D9 3 D On c

Move head up UP Head up F6 Sft Not Wokng from KB??

Move head back Oemcomma 2X Head back NA

Move head forward OemPeriod 2X Head forward NA

Move head down SFT DOWN Eye point down F5 Sft NG from KB??

Move head right Sft Right Move right NA

Move head down Sft Left Move left NA

Look ahead W Default view (DEFAULT) 8 NP Sft

Forward view NumPad1 Num pad 1 (View Crtl NumP1) V Ctrl Init viewp NG KB

Look up SFT R Look up fast F6 Sft Scrl Dwn NG KB

Look down SFT F Look down fast NA

Look left SFT Q 4X Look left (90DEG.) 4 NP Sft OK

Look right SFT E 4X Look right (90DEG.) 6 NP Sft OK

Increase ground speed SFT T Increase ground speed NA

Increase ground speed a lot SFT T 2X Increase ground speed a lot NA

Outside view D8 Outside view NA

Full screen toggle Ctrl L Screen toggle (NEW KEY XP11) NA

Cycle views NA Cycle views V OK

Cockpit View NA Cockpit V Ctrl OK

Zulu time backwards K 4X Time backwards NA

Zulu time forward L 3X Time forward NA

Zulu time backwards a lot SFT K Time backwards NA

Zulu time forward SFT L Time forward NA

 

Swap Nav 1 CTRL D9 Naav1 swap

Swap Nav 2 CTRL D0 Naav 2 swap NA

Swap Com 1 OemMinus Com 1 swap NA

Swap Com 2 CTRL 0 Swap com 2 (CHAHGE IN XP KEYS) NA

 

Pause P Pause p

Exit Simulator Shft F4 Exit (CHAHGE IN XP KEYS) ESC FG OK

Testing KeyCode Speech is On sir (TEST) KeyCode OK

Stop listening Control Key Toggle listening (Voice Stop Listen) Control Use KB for On /Off

 

It looks like the text gets scrambled, I posted an image of the text, with the Header below:

Commands / Phrases for Vocals Speech control app used in XP11.

To use: Place "win.xpl"(extplane.zip), and "Vocals.exe" (https://www.alth.fr/Vocals/index.php) and Run Vocals.exe, "profiles_xml.vc" included here, in a newly created directory ...X-Plane 11\Resources\plugins\ExtPlane\Vocals, and Start XP11 in windows mode. Make changes to the keys NEW and CHANGE keys listed below, Start Vocals with Run as Administrator, and select XP11 profile, and Application X-System. You can now go back to XP11 and use Full screen.

Some versions of XPlane have it already you can try it and if it works you do not need to add it.

For Flight Gear (FG) you do not need anything, just start FG in window mode, and Start Vocals.

NP-Numeric KP, FG-Flight Gear, XP-XPlane; Stop listening- must be enabled with KB Ctrl key

Note: Dx is Decimal number 1.. OemOpenBrackets IS [ etc. NG =Tested from KBoard Jstic only in c182 NG

 

[HHS]

Sorry, but:

 

 

I will continue to try to help but it is impossible if someone is not Ready to learn which is one of the Laws of learning.

 

Another needless, disrespectful and arrogant statement from you. Are you able to apologize?

 

I`m a teacher, and my academic background and hands-on experience in school tells me that the most important factor of learning success is the teacher himself.

 

When the teacher acts likes you, and let the students search for the "easter egg" there won`t be hardly any learning success, nor any motivation to do so. That`s exactly what you did by NOT providing the needed information ("I was not going to mention it,..."), and disregarding any input from the developer.

 

If you really want to help - and sorry again, it doesn`t look like that for me - You instead should learn how to provide meaningful bug reports and learn how to act on an equal footing.

 

Helpful (and common practice in software developement) would have been:

"The aircraft is flying only with 110KIAS with cowl flaps full open in horizontal cruise with following weight, power settings and weather datas. Instead it should be about 130KIAS."

 

With this input I could have reproduce this easily, would have known immediately where to look in the fdm-code and would already have changed the related coefficients.

 

When I move / scroll with the Right Mouse the whole forward view tilts, as if the Cpit and outside view are glued together, it doesn't not just move my head up with respect to the panel.

 

As I already said, you doing it wrong, as I can easily reproduce it by moving/ scrolling the with right mouse button pressed. That`s not a bug, it is not a feature, it just not the right action.

 

So Again, To shift the view: Go into mouse view mode- press and hold middle mouse button while moving/scrolling the mouse.

 

There is by the way another, easy method: Menubar (F10-key) --> View --> Adjust View Position.

Unfortunately the new view position isn`t saved. So much as I know by no aircraft in FGFS yet.

[flytv1]

Hi Thorsten.

Thank you for your help.

I tried your suggestion Open Debug -> Browse internal property

Go into /sim/current-view/

and ended with these values y-o m 0.71 x o m -0.1 z o m 1.15, which give me a decent forward view, but it also modifies the Right Left wing tip view, move the head way up. See pic of forward view. If I move it higher top of the instruments get covered.

There is also the problem of these setting not being retained / persistent, they change every time I restart FG.

This would imply that more changes, to the basic model, would need to be change.

I will look into modifying the Drag coefficient for the Cowl flaps and see what I can achieve.

@ HHS OK, I do not have a middle button, I have a mouse with a wheel I will try that, thanks for the input.

 

PS

OK, I just tried the other Mouse, with the wheel as milled button, but I will not work. See the pic with the Mouse settings, I tried all of them but none give me the expected results, by the same token the F!) does not do it either.

What system are you guys on, sounds like is not Windows?

My goal is to never touch the Mouse and or the KB and that is what I've been doing for the last 30 yeras, all the sims I used I was able to set them up with Hardware and or Voice control top achieve that.

 

[HHS]

....

This would imply that more changes, to the basic model, would need to be change.

 

May I kindly ask how long ago it has been that you sat in a Cessna 182?

And may I kindly ask if You ever have sit in a Cessna 182 S/T model with steam gauges?

 

I`m asking, because your shown values insists, that you would sit 10cm/4inch left from the center line in the real aircraft. That can`t be correct.

 

I also have here the 3d-model against the drawing from the POH, both scaled to correct dimensions.

Beside the wrong sized wheel fairing (seems I forgot it to resize), you can see that everything is correct regarding the cockpit.

So I`m still pretty sure that your perception from your Cessna 182 1978 model can`t be applied to the Cessna 182 1996+ models.

 

What system are you guys on, sounds like is not Windows?

Windows 10.

[flytv1]

Hi HHS.

I flew the 78 this past Monday and it's been a while, over 2 months since I've flown in a 2001.

I will likely be going again Tomorrow, Saturday but it will be in a Flight Design CTLSi, where by the way you can Not see the cowl from a siting position, which makes it very difficult to learn to land in, and maybe on Sunday in the 182.

What you lack in the 3D is the ability to visualize the Head position, Cessnas have fully articulating seats and you can raise / lower the seat where you can easily have the views I mentioned.

 

I know, and I understand, that you guys are trying to get things right and that is the reason why I am trying to point out some of the things that you can only see when you are in the real World.

You are not the only ones that are having that issue, Laminar, MS and others have / had the same problem, in some of the models, and they are payware and claim to be as real as you get. The LR XP11, now has a G1000 where they have a Wind Direction / Velocity indicator that stops showing information as high as 70KIAS in flight, if you have a head wind component of about 15kts, and multiple other flight dynamics issues.

Your 172 and 182 have a better behavior than their 172 when you get below Power curve, not to mention the over bank, improper behavior during Spins.... and you are the most responsive of them all.

Again, my intentions are just to be helpful, and for selfish reasons to get a tool that I can use to demonstrate and teach in. I've been doing this for many years and constantly trying to get a better tool.

I am not much into displaying my personal information on the Net, or any where else for that matter of fact.

I am not into Heavies, not aspiring to be a super hot shot, I've been flying since 1976 and surviving and fly in Real world every time I can, which is just about every week.

I can say, with very high level of confidence, that there is No C182RG, from any developers, freeware or payware, that are close enough to demonstrate most of the Commercial maneuvers in.

The C172RG and the 182RG are still the most popular training tools out there.

You very likely stand the best chance to create one. There seem to be sufficient parameters in the model to do it, but I do not know enough about the details to say if true.

Flight dynamics, as they are in real life, are very difficult to duplicate, in particular when you get below the Power curve, around 55 for 172, if you try to look at all / every phase of flight. They vary somewhat from year to year but the main dynamics are very close.

Keep up the good work.

[lnuss]

where by the way you can Not see the cowl from a siting position, which makes it very difficult to learn to land in

Tailwheel time would help you here -- basically you need to learn new reference points, some to the side and using peripheral vision, not just over the nose.

 

BTW, I've flown C-182s where the cowling was difficult to see, and some where it was easy to see. Lots of variations, but I could always see the wings for reference.

 

Since I've not tried FG for a while, I don't know if it supports TrackIR, but that's a handy gadget to let you look around, move your head fore, aft, up down tilt. Love mine.

[flytv1]

Hi.

Tailwheel adds another level to the forward view, in many you cannot see the end of the runway until the back wheel comes up, and the only choice you have is to look to side.

 

The CTLS is somewhere in between, it has a very short cowls that slopes down and the instrument panel is pushed back making it impossible to see the cowl.

 

Some of the older 182 had a lower instrument panel and had a very good forward view, later on they added more instruments and the panel got higher, in the later versions they got higher yet, but being that I always fly the right seat, at least in the last 20 years I will not get in an Cessna 172, 182... unless I adjust the seat to get access to full rudder travel and have the expected view. There were some that the right seat only moves forward and back and if I cannot adjust the seat I always have pillows available where I, or give to others, to adjust position, but I cannot recall having to use any in the 172 or 182. Oddly enough some of the new LSAs like the Jabirus, Spportcruisers.., are very low seated and makes for a very difficult forward view.

 

As to the wing tips I do not know of any high wings in the SEL, there are some where the wings are further back, that are different, where you cannot see the wing tips.

During the beginning of training the top of cowl is very helpful in getting a starting reference point during flare where it works to look down the runway and put the top of cowl with reference to it.

 

Where the wing tips become very important is during ground reference maneuvers training, like Turns around a point, 8s on ... but during normal VFR, even in level flight, there is a lot of information that you can derive from the wing tips and cowl.

[HHS]

Hi,

 

Since I've not tried FG for a while, I don't know if it supports TrackIR, but that's a handy gadget to let you look around, move your head fore, aft, up down tilt. Love mine.

 

According to some User it supports. FlightGear also suports FaceTrackNoIR, and that´s what I used now to show that the not-correct simulated head pivot is the cause for a different experience in Sim.

 

I engaged FaceTrackNoIR, used the default Cessna 172P, no change to the view settings beside the FOV- and - voila - I got the view above the cowling and when turning the head to the right the underside of the wing inclusive the tip.

 

I also tried it on the Cessna 182S, here I could either get the cowling, or the wingtip. But not both.

 

Here the video with the Cessna 172P:

 

The only thing i don`t like on Headtracking is, that you can`t use your butt-o-meter, so you always drift away, and can`t provide a stable flight....

 

Cheers

HHS

[HHS]

And here the Cessna 182S:

 

I have set my view a bit forward, otherwise no changes.

[lnuss]

Hi,

According to some User it supports. FlightGear also suports FaceTrackNoIR, and that´s what I used now to show that the not-correct simulated head pivot is the cause for a different experience in Sim.

 

I engaged FaceTrackNoIR, used the default Cessna 172P, no change to the view settings beside the FOV- and - voila - I got the view above the cowling and when turning the head to the right the underside of the wing inclusive the tip.

 

I also tried it on the Cessna 182S, here I could either get the cowling, or the wingtip. But not both.

...

The only thing i don`t like on Headtracking is, that you can`t use your butt-o-meter, so you always drift away, and can`t provide a stable flight....

 

Cheers

HHS

 

That "butt-o-meter" hasn't worked in any version of FS I've used, TrackIR or not. I think it's related to the room staying still. :D :pilot:

On the TrackIR I have a PAUSE button set on my joystick so that I can lock the view in place when needed, even use the hat switch, etc. to switch viewing direction, then unpause when I'm ready to look around again. In FS/P3D that feature is especially helpful when I go to any view other than the virtual cockpit.

 

It's nice to know that FG supports the head movements -- guess I've got to try it again soon (each iteration has been better, with MAJOR improvements since I first saw it a number of years ago. I'm impressed with what I see in the videos as regards the FaceTrackNoIR -- if I'd seen that without your identification of the device, I'd have sworn it was the TrackIR -- Nice!

 

The C-172 video looks very much like I've seen in many newer C-182s, while the C_182 video looks a lot like the C-182s I've seen in FS/P3D, in terms of seeing wings/cowling, and having to duck your head occasionally to see the wings.

[HHS]

Here is a video, where you can see how a pilot ducks, bend forward, turn his head,... to get the right sight.

 

 

Something only possible to simulate with Headtracking....

[ThorstenRenk]

and ended with these values y-o m 0.71 x o m -0.1 z o m 1.15, which give me a decent forward view, but it also modifies the Right Left wing tip view, move the head way up. See pic of forward view. If I move it higher top of the instruments get covered.

 

So just to make sure, moving the view works, you just can't do it with the mouse for some reason, if you try it with the mouse, something else happens?

 

 

There is also the problem of these setting not being retained / persistent, they change every time I restart FG.

 

That isn't a problem because you can easily make it persistent, but since moving the viewpoint is supposed to be a dynamical part of the simulation (like you move your head in reality), hat's the preferred mode of operation I guess and saving user-side custom views has low priority.

 

(You'd make it persistent by either editing the aircraft files or writing your own config which you load via commandline)