anyone able to land 747 settling on runway perfectly at stall speed?

[iainso]

Been struggling to land the 747 the same way as I can land the Cessna - which I'm able to make settle softly on the runway at stall speed +1 or 2 knots.

 

If it try to land much faster than stall speed in the 747 I'll nearly always float or bounce, and at best use up a large chunk of runway before having all wheels on the ground.

 

Trying to land near stall speed I'll nearly always end up stalling and crashing or at least wrecking the undercarriage.

[mrzippy]

How much fuel do you have on board when attempting this landing? You may be way too heavy to do what you are trying to do. Landing speed for the big heavies is around 155 Knots.

[Downwind66]

Iain - What are your approach speeds you have been using?

 

I know the 747 can be intimidating by it's size, but it can be one of the easiest to land. You just have to get the right setup on your approach. And once you know the setup, there is very little you have to do in the way of flaring. For the most part it will almost be in a perfect attitude for landing itself.

 

Are you using a checklist? Definitely something you want to use with the larger jet aircraft. Below is a site where I have downloaded many checklists. If you don't have one for the 747, go on this site and get one!

 

http://freechecklists.net/simchecklists.asp

 

mrzippy above is correct about the 155 KIAS. My last approach speed adjustment is 160 KIAS with 30* flaps, and when the aircraft is ready to set down, it probably does so with a comfortable airspeed of 155!

 

Rick :cool:

Edited March 5, 2020 by Downwind66

[napamule2]

You don't 'land' a 747 like you do a Cessna OR 'Flare'. You FLY the 747 lower and lower, nose up attitude, then reduce power to let the MAIN wheels touch the runway push down the nose so the nose wheel contacts the runway. Done!

 

But the trick is to have the right speed, right flaps, AND +2 to +4 pitch trim to allow flying nose up without you pulling back on the stick (because you will invariably let up and the nose will drop at which time you will pull up again (to 'flare') and you now have goofed it ALL up!). Practice helps.

Chuck B

Napamule

[mallcott]

Been struggling to land the 747 the same way as I can land the Cessna - which I'm able to make settle softly on the runway at stall speed +1 or 2 knots.

 

If it try to land much faster than stall speed in the 747 I'll nearly always float or bounce, and at best use up a large chunk of runway before having all wheels on the ground.

 

Trying to land near stall speed I'll nearly always end up stalling and crashing or at least wrecking the undercarriage.

 

Select appropriate loadout: Need correct pax, luggage and fuel... Don't even attempt without knowing how to adjust those things...

[iainso]

Thanks all, I'd been trying the default load, and coming in around 140kts, full flap. Or much faster on a steeper glideslope then trying to peel off the speed over the runway.

 

Sounds like you need to actually fly the 747 onto the runway - which is precisely what I learned NOT to do with the cessna (stall it just a few feet over the runway).

[Downwind66]

Iain - Where did you come up with 140 kts? 155 KIAS should work fine without the fear of the aircraft dropping out of the air!

 

Make sure you are disengaging the AP and Autothrottle, and then getting rid of any residual throttle with F1 just prior to touchdown!

 

You "actually" fly them all TO the runway, BUT, in the case of the 747, if you have your loading where it needs to be and your approach is setup properly, the 747 will almost get itself to the runway with very little effort on your part! Take a look at the size of the 747, it will come back to earth without you intentionally planting it! You are just there to keep things from getting "out of hand!"

 

Good luck! Rick :cool:

[g5flyer]

Iain,

We don't land jets at stall speed. Jets are designed to be flown onto the runway instead of being held off like a Cessna. REF speeds typically run at 1.23 to 1.3 vStall. That means you are 23 to 30% above the stall speed. In most jets, and the ones I've flown, you want to touch down no less than REF - 5. This protects you from tail strikes as this risk increases as body attitude at touch down is higher at slower speeds. Flare is a 2 to 3 degree pitch change maneuver. I have added the proper flare maneuver for a 747-400 below:

 

Flare and Touchdown

The techniques discussed here are applicable to all landings including one engine inoperative

landings, crosswind landings and landings on slippery runways.

Unless an unexpected or sudden event occurs, such as windshear or collision avoidance situation, it

is not appropriate to use sudden, violent or abrupt control inputs during landing. Begin with a

stabilized approach on speed, in trim and on glide path.

Note: When a manual landing is planned from an approach with the autopilot connected, the

transition to manual flight should be planned early enough to allow the pilot time to establish

airplane control before beginning the flare. The PF should consider disengaging the autopilot and

disconnecting the autothrottle 1 to 2 nm before the threshold, or approximately 300 to 600 feet

above field elevation.

When the threshold passes under the airplane nose and out of sight, shift the visual sighting point

to the far end of the runway. Shifting the visual sighting point assists in controlling the pitch

attitude during the flare. Maintaining a constant airspeed and descent rate assists in determining

the flare point. Initiate the flare when the main gear is approximately 30 feet above the runway by

increasing pitch attitude approximately 2° - 3°. This slows the rate of descent.

After the flare is initiated, smoothly retard the thrust levers to idle, and make small pitch

attitude adjustments to maintain the desired descent rate to the runway.

Ideally, main gear touchdown should occur simultaneously with thrust levers reaching idle. A smooth

thrust reduction to idle also assists in controlling the natural nose-down pitch change associated

with thrust reduction. Hold sufficient back pressure on the control column to keep the pitch

attitude constant. A touchdown attitude as depicted in the figure below is normal with an airspeed

of approximately VREF plus any gust correction.

Note: Do not trim during the flare or after touchdown. Trimming in the flare increases the

possibility of a tail strike.

 

Airspeed Control

During an autoland, the autothrottle retards the thrust so as to reach idle at touchdown. The 5

knot additive is bled off during the flare.

If the autothrottle is disengaged, or is planned to be disengaged prior to landing, maintain VREF

plus the wind additive until beginning the flare. The steady headwind correction is bled off during

the flare, however the gust correction is maintained to touchdown. Plan to touchdown at VREF plus

the gust correction. With proper airspeed control and thrust management, touchdown should occur at

no less than VREF - 5 knots.

Landing Flare Profile

The following diagrams use these conditions:

• 3° approach glide path

• flare distance is approximately 1,000 to 2,000 feet beyond the threshold

• typical landing flare times range from 4 to 8 seconds and are a function of approach speed

• airplane body attitudes are based upon typical landing weights, flaps 30, VREF 30 + 5 (approach)

and VREF 30 + 0 (touchdown), and should be reduced by 1° for each 5 knots above this speed

 

Typically, the pitch attitude increases slightly during the actual landing, but avoid

over-rotating. Do not increase the pitch attitude after touchdown; this could lead to a tail

strike.

Shifting the visual sighting point down the runway assists in controlling the pitch attitude during

the flare. A smooth thrust reduction to idle also assists in controlling the natural nose down

pitch change associated with thrust reduction. Hold sufficient back pressure on the control column

to keep the pitch attitude constant.

Edited March 7, 2020 by g5flyer